Zhentarim Basement on honor mode shows how bad roleplaying in this game actually is

[Slip]

So I am playing on honor mode, and for now I really hate it, most checks are like a trap. You either succeed a check and its fine, or you fail a check and ♥♥♥♥ explodes, there is no roleplaying involved whatsoever.

And this place shows it best, the lady that questions you what you are doing here, I failed a detect though checks, and it went instantly to combat, even though I had other means to convince here, but ofc game doesnt give you any other options (and I am not counting inspiration).

So what happens after I fail detect thought? She yells aaaa MAGIC, like first of all, why would a rogue be able to detect magic? Second, she is across the chasm, I am 0 threat to hear, so why cant I continue conversation? Especially since I have the items she wants.
No, the best thing to do for a zenith agent, who are evil, and wouldnt give a ♥♥♥♥ even if you did some shady ♥♥♥♥, they blow up their own supplies to stop me from approaching....

Larian failed to give us different choices for many things, which is what a dm would do, most failed checks ending in fight, is just bad, boring and not in spirit of dnd at all.

I much preferred nwn2 way of doing it, dice was reserved for combat, and rest was you either have enough points or not, it might not be the best way, but it sure as hell beats this.

Game is also extremely easy for a dnd game, so playing honor mode for harder combat is also a fail.
I also had bugs with stuff not triggering in combat, like the part with cave and gnolls, not triggering convo for me to be able to mind control him, owl cub, etc.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Slip:

Zhentarim Basement on honor mode shows how bad roleplaying in this game actually is
So I am playing on honor mode, and for now I really hate it, most checks are like a trap. You either succeed a check and its fine, or you fail a check and ♥♥♥♥ explodes, there is no roleplaying involved whatsoever.

And this place shows it best, the lady that questions you what you are doing here, I failed a detect though checks, and it went instantly to combat, even though I had other means to convince here, but ofc game doesnt give you any other options (and I am not counting inspiration).

So what happens after I fail detect thought? She yells aaaa MAGIC, like first of all, why would a rogue be able to detect magic? Second, she is across the chasm, I am 0 threat to hear, so why cant I continue conversation? Especially since I have the items she wants.
No, the best thing to do for a zenith agent, who are evil, and wouldnt give a ♥♥♥♥ even if you did some shady ♥♥♥♥, they blow up their own supplies to stop me from approaching....

Larian failed to give us different choices for many things, which is what a dm would do, most failed checks ending in fight, is just bad, boring and not in spirit of dnd at all.

I much preferred nwn2 way of doing it, dice was reserved for combat, and rest was you either have enough points or not, it might not be the best way, but it sure as hell beats this.

Game is also extremely easy for a dnd game, so playing honor mode for harder combat is also a fail.
I also had bugs with stuff not triggering in combat, like the part with cave and gnolls, not triggering convo for me to be able to mind control him, owl cub, etc.

What you wrote shows more a lack of personal understanding on how the game works and how people would react if you would try to read their minds without permissions.

[Slip]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

What you wrote shows more a lack of personal understanding on how the game works and how people would react if you would try to read their minds without permissions.

Exactly, game works like ♥♥♥♥, thank you, I gave you quite a few example of why I think something doesnt work, you might address them before saying I dont understand the game.

Rogues cant detect magic, and there is no reason why an evil faction would react like that, especially since they are in safe spot, and I still have a bargaining chip to talk to them. But nop they blow up most of their supplies, gg zents.

[KaiserStrytz]

It shows you never played dnd before. Spells like 'friends' or 'detect thoughts' can be sense by npc with appropriate stats. Even in honour mod from bg3, it tells you than those spells can be detect. It has nothing to do with class.

[Woke Buster]

A lot of stuff doesn't make sense in BG3. That's simply how it is designed. Ironically, but it feels that BG1 and BG2 had more choises and roleplaying than this.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by User-315-708:

A lot of stuff doesn't make sense in BG3. That's simply how it is designed. Ironically, but it feels that BG1 and BG2 had more choises and roleplaying than this.

And yet, you don't go play those games. Instead, you stay here.

[Lani]

i don't like it when people insult アンジェル

Originally posted by Slip:

So what happens after I fail detect thought? She yells aaaa MAGIC, like first of all, why would a rogue be able to detect magic?

in DnD rules back since ADnD (correct me if I'm wrong) when you fumble a mental invasion like detect thoughts, the victim of that violations notices the effects. This is not a class ability that everyone but rogues has, it's an inate ability to recognize when someone is violating your mind and fumbling it. It's the equivalent to noticing a fumbled pickpocket.

Originally posted by Slip:

Second, she is across the chasm, I am 0 threat to hear, so why cant I continue conversation? Especially since I have the items she wants.

You just violated her mind, the most private level of being. Why of why would she maybe not want to talk to you....

Originally posted by Slip:

]No, the best thing to do for a zenith agent, who are evil, and wouldnt give a ♥♥♥♥ even if you did some shady ♥♥♥♥, they blow up their own supplies to stop me from approaching....

So by this logic if you are evil and someone walks up to, kicks you in the balls you should not get mad but be "Good one mate, let me buy you a beer"... Because you're evil.

Zentharium agents in the game and the Forgotten Realms have a magnitude more depth of personality than you are displaying here. Your good/evil concept seems to be of a level about a decade and a half younger than recommended age for BG3

Originally posted by Slip:

Larian failed to give us different choices for many things, which is what a dm would do, most failed checks ending in fight, is just bad, boring and not in spirit of dnd at all.

Larian does not give us every possible option like a human DM could, but:
A) They offer way more than any other RPG since Arcanum
B) A human DM having to deal with your "different choices" would after one session do a quick pulse if everyone is in agreement and then let you know you will not be joining them for future sessions. Then kill off your character in some hilarious way during their next more fun session.

Originally posted by Slip:

I much preferred nwn2 way of doing it, dice was reserved for combat, and rest was you either have enough points or not, it might not be the best way, but it sure as hell beats this.

So a more basic system is better even though it gives you fewer options, but BG3 sucks because it doesn't give different options. Soild reasoning.

Originally posted by Slip:

Game is also extremely easy for a dnd game, so playing honor mode for harder combat is also a fail.
I also had bugs with stuff not triggering in combat, like the part with cave and gnolls, not triggering convo for me to be able to mind control him, owl cub, etc.

I was going to say average "I'm too awesome for this game flex", without the Foehammer achievement even, but then I realized you're actually saying "The game is too easy so I won't try it on a hard difficulty".
Oh boy. I was annoyed at the start of this post but now I'm just laughing at your reasoning.

[LordNibbler]

First of all: Honour mode is intended for people who know what they are doing. Game even tells you that. That doesn't just mean "how to fight" but also everything else. It seems you do not know what you were doing. So it's questionable why you even play it that way, but that is your thing.

But the issue at hand: if you know what you *can* do then you do certainly not go into the Zenth hideout without resolving the matter at hand that this special group of people have ("shipment"). If you resolve that then you very much have not only an easy way in but also some new trader buddy and quest giver (if only temporary, until you may decide to end that relationship because XP and loot). In other words: you do very well have a choice there, even several although slightly worse ones. I wager that same not understanding pertains to your other "problems" (like probably having already damaged said Gnoll; note here: I never had it triggered as well because I rather make sure he is as soon as possible dead than taking chances).

[Slip]

Originally posted by Lani:

i don't like it when people insult アンジェル

Originally posted by Slip:

So what happens after I fail detect thought? She yells aaaa MAGIC, like first of all, why would a rogue be able to detect magic?

in DnD rules back since ADnD (correct me if I'm wrong) when you fumble a mental invasion like detect thoughts, the victim of that violations notices the effects. This is not a class ability that everyone but rogues has, it's an inate ability to recognize when someone is violating your mind and fumbling it. It's the equivalent to noticing a fumbled pickpocket.

Originally posted by Slip:

Second, she is across the chasm, I am 0 threat to hear, so why cant I continue conversation? Especially since I have the items she wants.

You just violated her mind, the most private level of being. Why of why would she maybe not want to talk to you....

Originally posted by Slip:

]No, the best thing to do for a zenith agent, who are evil, and wouldnt give a ♥♥♥♥ even if you did some shady ♥♥♥♥, they blow up their own supplies to stop me from approaching....

So by this logic if you are evil and someone walks up to, kicks you in the balls you should not get mad but be "Good one mate, let me buy you a beer"... Because you're evil.

Zentharium agents in the game and the Forgotten Realms have a magnitude more depth of personality than you are displaying here. Your good/evil concept seems to be of a level about a decade and a half younger than recommended age for BG3

Originally posted by Slip:

Larian failed to give us different choices for many things, which is what a dm would do, most failed checks ending in fight, is just bad, boring and not in spirit of dnd at all.

Larian does not give us every possible option like a human DM could, but:
A) They offer way more than any other RPG since Arcanum
B) A human DM having to deal with your "different choices" would after one session do a quick pulse if everyone is in agreement and then let you know you will not be joining them for future sessions. Then kill off your character in some hilarious way during their next more fun session.

Originally posted by Slip:

I much preferred nwn2 way of doing it, dice was reserved for combat, and rest was you either have enough points or not, it might not be the best way, but it sure as hell beats this.

So a more basic system is better even though it gives you fewer options, but BG3 sucks because it doesn't give different options. Soild reasoning.

Originally posted by Slip:

Game is also extremely easy for a dnd game, so playing honor mode for harder combat is also a fail.
I also had bugs with stuff not triggering in combat, like the part with cave and gnolls, not triggering convo for me to be able to mind control him, owl cub, etc.

I was going to say average "I'm too awesome for this game flex", without the Foehammer achievement even, but then I realized you're actually saying "The game is too easy so I won't try it on a hard difficulty".
Oh boy. I was annoyed at the start of this post but now I'm just laughing at your reasoning.

You can check much more difficult games on my list, and their respective achievements, bg3 is far cry from difficult. Game was a buggy mess when I played it, and I just stopped in act 3, now I am forcing myself to finish it. Bg3 is made for very broader audience, so by nature it is indeed easier, then previous crpgs.

Me liking nwn2 system is a prefrence for me, and it had same amount of choices, that didnt depend on luck roll, which unless you are in honor mode, doesnt really matter since you can just quickload.

I had something they wanted, so yes there is 0 reason why I wouldnt be able to use it as a bargening chip, regardless of being kicked in the balls, there is already a mechanic in the game, where enemies get temporary aggresive, which could have been used here, instead of treating the encounter like a failed trap disarm check. It is called roleplaying in the game, and giving us more options, which is never a bad thing. I am not complaing about failing a check with an owlbear, who I can understand has 0 patience being an animal, but a human not so much, especially one of evil alignment, which are alot more open to dubious things.

Edit: I found another fail in the story, with priestess Gut, I wiped druids and tieflights, and when she read my mind, it didnt change anything from my playthrough where I played the good guy

[Slip]

Originally posted by LordNibbler:

First of all: Honour mode is intended for people who know what they are doing. Game even tells you that. That doesn't just mean "how to fight" but also everything else. It seems you do not know what you were doing. So it's questionable why you even play it that way, but that is your thing.

But the issue at hand: if you know what you *can* do then you do certainly not go into the Zenth hideout without resolving the matter at hand that this special group of people have ("shipment"). If you resolve that then you very much have not only an easy way in but also some new trader buddy and quest giver (if only temporary, until you may decide to end that relationship because XP and loot). In other words: you do very well have a choice there, even several although slightly worse ones. I wager that same not understanding pertains to your other "problems" (like probably having already damaged said Gnoll; note here: I never had it triggered as well because I rather make sure he is as soon as possible dead than taking chances).

Define, know what they are doing? Can we agree that game controls are rather clunky? So if you get in a situation due to miss click which can happen to anyone, and you end up in strange situation, I would say yes its my fault, but it isnt preventable regardless of my knowledge of the game. Honor mode, I would pop turn based, extremly often just to avoide simple mistakes, but it slows the game down tremendously.

[AokiYakumo]

Originally posted by Slip:

So I am playing on honor mode, and for now I really hate it, most checks are like a trap. You either succeed a check and its fine, or you fail a check and ♥♥♥♥ explodes, there is no roleplaying involved whatsoever.

And this place shows it best, the lady that questions you what you are doing here, I failed a detect though checks, and it went instantly to combat, even though I had other means to convince here, but ofc game doesnt give you any other options (and I am not counting inspiration).

So what happens after I fail detect thought? She yells aaaa MAGIC, like first of all, why would a rogue be able to detect magic? Second, she is across the chasm, I am 0 threat to hear, so why cant I continue conversation? Especially since I have the items she wants.
No, the best thing to do for a zenith agent, who are evil, and wouldnt give a ♥♥♥♥ even if you did some shady ♥♥♥♥, they blow up their own supplies to stop me from approaching....

Larian failed to give us different choices for many things, which is what a dm would do, most failed checks ending in fight, is just bad, boring and not in spirit of dnd at all.

I much preferred nwn2 way of doing it, dice was reserved for combat, and rest was you either have enough points or not, it might not be the best way, but it sure as hell beats this.

Game is also extremely easy for a dnd game, so playing honor mode for harder combat is also a fail.
I also had bugs with stuff not triggering in combat, like the part with cave and gnolls, not triggering convo for me to be able to mind control him, owl cub, etc.

I don't know HOW IN THE HELL you pissed the ZHENTS off like that, or why you thought that was the play, or why you're mad they are reacting how a person would when you PROBE THEIR F*CKIN' MIND, or why you went to Waukeen's first as opposed to the hideout on the Risen Road when the hideout is before Waukeen's (which you showed you knew where that was because you complained about not being able to redirect the Flind, which is at the hideout, which is before Waukeen's), or why you would be mad - at all - for a misplay YOU MADE!!!

Sorry, but you're cap'n. And the responses towards others makes me think you're ragebaiting or trolling, so allow me to cut you off now with a Guide to 100% 1CC NoMiss NoBomb NoIllithid run of BG3 Honor Mode URA Mode

[Slip]

Originally posted by AokiYakumo:

Originally posted by Slip:

So I am playing on honor mode, and for now I really hate it, most checks are like a trap. You either succeed a check and its fine, or you fail a check and ♥♥♥♥ explodes, there is no roleplaying involved whatsoever.

And this place shows it best, the lady that questions you what you are doing here, I failed a detect though checks, and it went instantly to combat, even though I had other means to convince here, but ofc game doesnt give you any other options (and I am not counting inspiration).

So what happens after I fail detect thought? She yells aaaa MAGIC, like first of all, why would a rogue be able to detect magic? Second, she is across the chasm, I am 0 threat to hear, so why cant I continue conversation? Especially since I have the items she wants.
No, the best thing to do for a zenith agent, who are evil, and wouldnt give a ♥♥♥♥ even if you did some shady ♥♥♥♥, they blow up their own supplies to stop me from approaching....

Larian failed to give us different choices for many things, which is what a dm would do, most failed checks ending in fight, is just bad, boring and not in spirit of dnd at all.

I much preferred nwn2 way of doing it, dice was reserved for combat, and rest was you either have enough points or not, it might not be the best way, but it sure as hell beats this.

Game is also extremely easy for a dnd game, so playing honor mode for harder combat is also a fail.
I also had bugs with stuff not triggering in combat, like the part with cave and gnolls, not triggering convo for me to be able to mind control him, owl cub, etc.

I don't know HOW IN THE HELL you pissed the ZHENTS off like that, or why you thought that was the play, or why you're mad they are reacting how a person would when you PROBE THEIR F*CKIN' MIND, or why you went to Waukeen's first as opposed to the hideout on the Risen Road when the hideout is before Waukeen's (which you showed you knew where that was because you complained about not being able to redirect the Flind, which is at the hideout, which is before Waukeen's), or why you would be mad - at all - for a misplay YOU MADE!!!

Sorry, but you're cap'n. And the responses towards others makes me think you're ragebaiting or trolling, so allow me to cut you off now with a Guide to 100% 1CC NoMiss NoBomb NoIllithid run of BG3 Honor Mode URA Mode

Thats my point, I had a barganing chip, she didnt turn hostile, there was no reason not to be able to bring the fact that I have to amulet, and go from there.

I pissed them off with one failed detect thought check, nothing else. I obivoulsy passed the first guy, since I knew the password. I think its just a dumb design, to cut so much stuff because of one failed check, especially when I had something they wanted.

How is it trolling, asking for more options in a roleplaying game? Is what I am saying soooo alien, and crazy? I remember very well that, that amulet was extremly important to her, and there is 0 reason why I wouldnt be able to use it, unless I straight up attacked them.

You are calling me a troll for wanting more options? I never said I didnt ♥♥♥♥ up, I just feel there is alot more room here, for different options, but no the most important thing is that I can put a penis on a women, yea those are the real ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ options. The fact that I can choose betwene default/penis/vagina.....

[EricHVela]

How I saw Honour Mode: Not about roleplaying but tactics. It was so heavily reliant on winning the encounters and punishing mistakes that roleplaying took a back seat for me.

I saved the roleplaying for the other difficulties. (Honour Mode wasn't available at Launch anyway.)

I recommend Balanced or Explorer if you want to put significant priority on roleplay and save Tactical and Honour Mode for the combat challenges (as their focus is specifically changing combat after all).

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by Slip:

So I am playing on honor mode, and for now I really hate it, most checks are like a trap. You either succeed a check and its fine, or you fail a check and ♥♥♥♥ explodes, there is no roleplaying involved whatsoever.

It doesn't explode if you don't walk over it.... Failed check or not.

And this place shows it best, the lady that questions you what you are doing here, I failed a detect though checks, and it went instantly to combat, even though I had other means to convince here, but ofc game doesnt give you any other options (and I am not counting inspiration).

So what happens after I fail detect thought? She yells aaaa MAGIC, like first of all, why would a rogue be able to detect magic?

Because you failed at poking around in her head and she felt it. Why do you assume they wouldn't be able to feel it? Why do you think it would require being a caster to be able to feel someone prodding into your mind? You ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ INVADED HER MIND and she caught you. Of course that's going to trigger hostility, what do you expect?

[Slip]

Originally posted by EricHVela:

How I saw Honour Mode: Not about roleplaying but tactics. It was so heavily reliant on winning the encounters and punishing mistakes that roleplaying took a back seat for me.

I saved the roleplaying for the other difficulties. (Honour Mode wasn't available at Launch anyway.)

I recommend Balanced or Explorer if you want to put significant priority on roleplay and save Tactical and Honour Mode for the combat challenges (as their focus is specifically changing combat after all).

I agree, thats why I went with Dark urge, killing everything is in the job description, so I am still roleplaying hehe

If I went with, what I would consider my role, I would rage quit hundred times already. While I do like the idea of honor mode, but In my opinions its badly implemented in this game.

Lost mushroom dude in underdark, because you cant tell him to wait, so he jumped really far after me, didnt think he could, and one of those exploding shrooms poped him into the chasm, underdark got alot harder now.

[AokiYakumo]

Originally posted by Slip:

Originally posted by AokiYakumo:

I don't know HOW IN THE HELL you pissed the ZHENTS off like that, or why you thought that was the play, or why you're mad they are reacting how a person would when you PROBE THEIR F*CKIN' MIND, or why you went to Waukeen's first as opposed to the hideout on the Risen Road when the hideout is before Waukeen's (which you showed you knew where that was because you complained about not being able to redirect the Flind, which is at the hideout, which is before Waukeen's), or why you would be mad - at all - for a misplay YOU MADE!!!

Sorry, but you're cap'n. And the responses towards others makes me think you're ragebaiting or trolling, so allow me to cut you off now with a Guide to 100% 1CC NoMiss NoBomb NoIllithid run of BG3 Honor Mode URA Mode

Thats my point, I had a barganing chip, she didnt turn hostile, there was no reason not to be able to bring the fact that I have to amulet, and go from there.

I pissed them off with one failed detect thought check, nothing else. I obivoulsy passed the first guy, since I knew the password. I think its just a dumb design, to cut so much stuff because of one failed check, especially when I had something they wanted.

How is it trolling, asking for more options in a roleplaying game? Is what I am saying soooo alien, and crazy? I remember very well that, that amulet was extremly important to her, and there is 0 reason why I wouldnt be able to use it, unless I straight up attacked them.

You are calling me a troll for wanting more options? I never said I didnt ♥♥♥♥ up, I just feel there is alot more room here, for different options.

1) It's not an amulet, so that's another point I have for this being ragebait. Maybe next time get your details straight.

2) You OPENED with Detect Thoughts when - if we follow the sequence accurately - you would only need to do that if the other Zhents died at the hideout by the Risen Road with the gnolls (which can happen if you bungle the illithid rolls on the Flind), or if you went to Waukeen's 1st, which makes no sense because - again - Waukeen's is after the Risen Road.

3) Even then, there WOULD be other options to get by, such as a Persuade or Intimidate check - as opposed to Detect Thoughts (which is actually the hardest of the three rolls because YOU DON'T HAVE PROF. BONUSES ON THAT ROLL).

4) You are 100% complaining about the consequences of your own actions, because you bungled the roll and pissed off the Zhents, in a game where your choices f*cking MATTER.

5) The context being ignored here is really precious, lemme tell ya. Let's ask some questions: What's happening at Waukeen's? Who was staying there before sh*t went down? Why are the Zhents setting up explosives in the first place? Why's that item she wants of such importance to her? Are you a Zhent? Have you been seen in the area recently? What would a criminal organization do if Joe Schmoe from down the street walked into their speak-easy with AN ACTIVE WIRE!?!?!?

You're baiting. I'm falling for it (and I probably shouldn't), but you're 100% fishing for angry comments and hoping for a Steam Award or two, because you're mad about having to deal with the ramifications of f*cking up and NOT HAVING THE OPTION TO TAKE-BACKSIES ON A DIFFICULTY MODE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO REMOVE THEM.