Does game BG3 have the same nonsense found in Divinity Orginal Sin?

[morgezuma]

In 2015, I said I'd never play a game from this company again. That was because Divinity Original Sin was absurdly camp and poorly designed, in my opinion.

I especially didn't like the Dev breaking the 4th wall to directly hint to me what I should do and if I don't do it, he'll kill my character.

Would love to find out that no one involved in making Divinity Original Sin was involved in BG3. I see it's got great reviews, but then again, Original Sin has a pretty good score and that is a game seems like an obnoxious joke to me. Obviously, we all have different tastes.

Also, what is the death penalty like? I'm not a save-scummer and also don't like games where you grind and respawn until you get to the end.

[Sonic Titan]

Would you like to be a little more specific so people might be able to help with... whatever this is?

Originally posted by morgezuma:

Also, what is the death penalty like?

Hasn't gotten many user reviews.

[Cutlass Jack]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

I especially didn't like the Dev breaking the 4th wall to directly hint to me what I should do and if I don't do it, he'll kill my character.

I can't remember anything like that ever happening in Original Sin.

But you probably won't like this game. Based on what you wrote. Because its the same people making a game that in most ways builds off of OS.

Anyway there's no death penalty. If one of your character dies, you have to get a ressurection spell cast on them. If everyone dies you have to reload from a previous save.

[NegativeZero]

Just don't play BG3. You don't sound like you deserve the experience anyways.

[kth]

Yes, in terms of game design this game has same problems as DOS2 had, but much, much less.

Originally posted by NegativeZero:

Just don't play BG3. You don't sound like you deserve the experience anyways.

oh no somebody questioned my beloved game's 10/10s IGNs

[Orion Invictus]

What do you mean by "camp" in this context, OP?

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

Originally posted by morgezuma:

I especially didn't like the Dev breaking the 4th wall to directly hint to me what I should do and if I don't do it, he'll kill my character.

I can't remember anything like that ever happening in Original Sin.

Such as when I was in a cemetery. I was about to start my search, but the Dev, not an in game character, but the Dev says "are you sure you want to dig that grave?". What I mean is that, it's not a ghost, not a passerby, just the dev breaking the 4th wall. Dev thought it would be fun and clever game design to code in an immersion breaking series of three warnings every time my character tried to dig the grave, the Dev speaks to me the player hinting that I shouldn't do that. Like a DM going out of character to tell the player, "I wouldn't do that if I were you". And then, since I don't let my character take out of character inputs, the DM just says, OK, you're dead. No roll, just dead. That's just poor RP and poor design.

I know other players don't mind that. The game is filled with low brow camp and cartoon voice acting. And that's fine for some people. I'm not knocking it. It's just not my flavor.

So I get it, some players don't mind a Dev or DM saying "Oh, you're character shouldn't do that, and if he does do that, I'll kill him, no saving roll, just dead. I'm warning you".

Personally, I don't like be led to all the content and required to interact with it exactly as Dev requires, or else. I don't see the point of that.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

What do you mean by "camp" in this context, OP?

Such as all the cartoon-style voicing, out of character jokes, and especially the talking dog. I didn't get too far, I uninstalled it after Dev's coded messages told me, the player, that my character better not dig that grave or Dev would insta-kill my whole party. So my character digs the grave (trying to save the people of the town, after all), and Dev flips the table with his coded party wipe because his out of character demand was not acted on in character.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

Originally posted by morgezuma:

I especially didn't like the Dev breaking the 4th wall to directly hint to me what I should do and if I don't do it, he'll kill my character.

I can't remember anything like that ever happening in Original Sin.

But you probably won't like this game. Based on what you wrote. Because its the same people making a game that in most ways builds off of OS.

Anyway there's no death penalty. If one of your character dies, you have to get a ressurection spell cast on them. If everyone dies you have to reload from a previous save.

I don't load previous saves as a response to negative results. So to me, it sounds like it's possible to face "gave over" if everyone in the party dies. Is that right? I'm willing to play in a world where resurrection is part of the design balance as long as it requires at least one survivor making it back home alive.

About OS breaking 4th wall, it was the Dev's messages to player when you're digging a grave dev won't let you dig. I don't remember his words, but it comes down to him killing you if you don't follow his out of character instruction to not do what you intended to do.

[alanc9]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

What do you mean by "camp" in this context, OP?

Such as all the cartoon-style voicing, out of character jokes, and especially the talking dog. I didn't get too far, I uninstalled it after Dev's coded messages told me, the player, that my character better not dig that grave or Dev would insta-kill my whole party. So my character digs the grave (trying to save the people of the town, after all), and Dev flips the table with his coded party wipe because his out of character demand was not acted on in character.

When the DM tells you "you better not do that," and you do that, what result do you expect?

[Quillithe]

I mean that was kinda the tone of DOS1, it was Larian's goofy fairytale game.

That doesn't make it poorly designed though. And it's also a bit different from their following games

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by alanc9:

Originally posted by morgezuma:

Such as all the cartoon-style voicing, out of character jokes, and especially the talking dog. I didn't get too far, I uninstalled it after Dev's coded messages told me, the player, that my character better not dig that grave or Dev would insta-kill my whole party. So my character digs the grave (trying to save the people of the town, after all), and Dev flips the table with his coded party wipe because his out of character demand was not acted on in character.

When the DM tells you "you better not do that," and you do that, what result do you expect?

The way I've always played, DMs we respect don't tell you what to do. Your character follows his nature, interacts with the world (hopefully with some common sense) and the consequences are diced. What Dev did in OS is like a DM interfering with your character's choices:
Player "I refuse the quest and head out of town"
DM: If you do, I'll just kill your whole party
Player: Uh.. I'm in character. My character is just doing what he does.
DM: "Yeah, but I'm telling YOU, the player, that if your character refuses the quest, I'm killing the whole party"

Not the DM or DEV I prefer. There are plenty of other games that don't break the 4th wall. And again, I don't mind if others think it's fun. It's just not for me.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

I mean that was kinda the tone of DOS1, it was Larian's goofy fairytale game.

That doesn't make it poorly designed though. And it's also a bit different from their following games

Yeah, so for instance, there's a talking statue that says it can tell your future. If you let it, then you see the end of the game credits roll. Some people love such jokes (I hope), I find it obnoxious.

As for poor design elements, I didn't see too much content, because I uninstalled after Dev's coded messages told me out of character what my character better not do. Dev thinks it will be clever to warn me that the party will be killed if I do an option he coded in, but requires that I do not do, then if I do it, he thinks I will just reload. Nah, uninstall. I didn't sign up to play handsies with the Dev/DM via out of character bantering. Just not my thing.

There is no such game design concept as:
1. code in options that lead to insta-death
2. tell player (out of character, despite this being an RP game) not to do a thing
3. kill the characters belonging to players that don't obey Dev's command
4. let them reload and try again until they do as you say.

Clearly, this obnoxious joke took at least a day to code and caused me to uninstall a game. I get it, others who dig this hand-holdy Dad joke kind of thing just think I can't take a joke. OK. And so it is. I give great reviews for great games and bad reviews for bad jokes. A shame really. But if it was really such a winning formula, it would be repeated, but it hasn't. Thankfully.

[morgezuma]

So back to my two questions.

Can I get confirmation that there are settings in BG3 that allow player to lose as long as he's not a save scummer?

And does BG3 have campy humor and 4th wall breaking elements like Original Sin?

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

I mean that was kinda the tone of DOS1, it was Larian's goofy fairytale game.

That doesn't make it poorly designed though. And it's also a bit different from their following games

Yeah, so for instance, there's a talking statue that says it can tell your future. If you let it, then you see the end of the game credits roll. Some people love such jokes (I hope), I find it obnoxious.

As for poor design elements, I didn't see too much content, because I uninstalled after Dev's coded messages told me out of character what my character better not do. Dev thinks it will be clever to warn me that the party will be killed if I do an option he coded in, but requires that I do not do, then if I do it, he thinks I will just reload. Nah, uninstall. I didn't sign up to play handsies with the Dev/DM via out of character bantering. Just not my thing.

There is no such game design concept as:
1. code in options that lead to insta-death
2. tell player (out of character, despite this being an RP game) not to do a thing
3. kill the characters belonging to players that don't obey Dev's command
4. let them reload and try again until they do as you say.

Clearly, this obnoxious joke took at least a day to code and caused me to uninstall a game. I get it, others who dig this hand-holdy Dad joke kind of thing just think I can't take a joke. OK. And so it is. I give great reviews for great games and bad reviews for bad jokes. A shame really. But if it was really such a winning formula, it would be repeated, but it hasn't. Thankfully.

There's literally a TVtropes page about games that do this.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AreYouSureYouWantToDoThat

And they're mostly worse than DOS1 where you can just back some people away from the grave.

Super Paper Mario does it. It's not that unheard of.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

So back to my two questions.

Can I get confirmation that there are settings in BG3 that allow player to lose as long as he's not a save scummer?

And does BG3 have campy humor and 4th wall breaking elements like Original Sin?

Yes you can die and lose the game and depends but definitely less than DOS1 of course