Spell DC clarification

[Nats25]

There is something off about the spellcasting mechanics and I'm not sure if it is a bug that just affects me. In the DC for each spell is not the same when hover over it compared to the DC shown at the top of the spellbook. The spell bonus is adding on from the its respective saving throw class. For instance, Both Gale and Astarion at lvl4 have the spell grease. But the DC for astarion's grease is higher at 13 vs gale at 10 because Astarion dexterity is higher at 14 vs gale at 10. This info is only displayed when I hover over the spell, thee DC displayed at the top of the spellbook tab still factors in the INT modifier. This does not make any sense whatsoever. I noticed this when Shadowheart(lvl4) keeps getting low chances on her sacred flame even though her WIS is at 14 and the overall DC is 13. But when I hover over the spell the DC is only 10 because Shadowheart only has 10 in DEX. Can someone help me make sense of this.

[Orion Invictus]

It's a UI bug.

[Kappa]

I think it's a bug in the spell tooltip.

What matters is the spell DC you can see in the spellbook ( you can try targeting different NPC or characters to see their save/hit chances and make some calculations ).

[AokiYakumo]

Originally posted by Kappa:

I think it's a bug in the spell tooltip.

What matters is the spell DC you can see in the spellbook ( you can try targeting different NPC or characters to see their save/hit chances and make some calculations ).

^This^.

[guard65]

I bet It is showing that players chance to slip and fall, the dexterity DC, which is used by the grease spell.

[Mike Garrison]

I think you are misunderstanding how it works. Take Sacred flame for example.

The *target* of Sacred Flame gets a Dex saving throw that negates it. So it's not just Shadowheart's spellsave DC, it is Shadowheart's spellsave DC - the *target's* Dex saving throw adjustment. If Shadowheart targets it at something that has poor Dex, she has a good chance to hit with it. But if she targets it at something that has good Dex, the chance of her getting a hit is a lot lower.

Similarly, Grease depends on the *target's* Dex, not the spellcaster's Dex.

[AokiYakumo]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

I think you are misunderstanding how it works. Take Sacred flame for example.

The *target* of Sacred Flame gets a Dex saving throw that negates it. So it's not just Shadowheart's spellsave DC, it is Shadowheart's spellsave DC - the *target's* Dex saving throw adjustment. If Shadowheart targets it at something that has poor Dex, she has a good chance to hit with it. But if she targets it at something that has good Dex, the chance of her getting a hit is a lot lower.

Similarly, Grease depends on the *target's* Dex, not the spellcaster's Dex.

Bud, what they are referring to is the tooltip DC being bugged, not what the DC is. I'm pretty sure they know how Save DCs work.

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by AokiYakumo:

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

I think you are misunderstanding how it works. Take Sacred flame for example.

The *target* of Sacred Flame gets a Dex saving throw that negates it. So it's not just Shadowheart's spellsave DC, it is Shadowheart's spellsave DC - the *target's* Dex saving throw adjustment. If Shadowheart targets it at something that has poor Dex, she has a good chance to hit with it. But if she targets it at something that has good Dex, the chance of her getting a hit is a lot lower.

Similarly, Grease depends on the *target's* Dex, not the spellcaster's Dex.

Bud, what they are referring to is the tooltip DC being bugged, not what the DC is. I'm pretty sure they know how Save DCs work.

I think it's pretty obvious that the OP does not know.

[AokiYakumo]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Originally posted by AokiYakumo:

Bud, what they are referring to is the tooltip DC being bugged, not what the DC is. I'm pretty sure they know how Save DCs work.

I think it's pretty obvious that the OP does not know.

No, it's not, because they know to check their spell modifier to calc their DC:

I noticed this when Shadowheart(lvl4) keeps getting low chances on her sacred flame even though her WIS is at 14 and the overall DC is 13.

So, what's bugging them is the fact that the UI's stroking out for them and showing them faulty DCs.

[guard65]

Since the spell has no DC, it creates a surface only and triggers a prone check. Does a bottle of grease thrown on the ground have a DC? It triggers the exact same event.

It is showing the casters chance to slip and fall on the surface type it creates.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by guard65:

Since the spell has no DC, it creates a surface only and triggers a prone check. Does a bottle of grease thrown on the ground have a DC? It triggers the exact same event.

It is showing the casters chance to slip and fall on the surface type it creates.

In base 5e (since there are no surfaces) the DC to slip on the grease summoned with Grease is a spell save DC.

I assume the same is true for the initial slipping Check AS the grease is summoned.

Aka:
Caster casts grease, everyone in the area saves against the spell DC whether they slip, if they then move across the surface they make the generic DC 12 Dex Save for slipping.

I think the difference between Spellbook DC and the DC in Spell Tooltips, is that when looking at the tooltip, the spell shows the DC the spell would have if it used the Ability of the character that has the spell available.

In your example:
Grease demands a Dex Save.

When Gale casts it, it requires a Dex Save against his Spell-Save DC which is based on
Intelligence (8 + proficicency + Int Mod)

When Astarion Casts it (as an Arcane Trickster I presume) it is also based on Intelligence
(8 + proficiency + Int mod)

But when you look at the tooltip, it calculates the DC not based on your Casters Spellcasting ability (int) but on the ability you need to save for.

So it shows (8+Proficiency+Dex Mod)

So, as many others have stated, the tooltip is simply bugged and shows you a wrong DC.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by guard65:

Since the spell has no DC, it creates a surface only and triggers a prone check. Does a bottle of grease thrown on the ground have a DC? It triggers the exact same event.

It is showing the casters chance to slip and fall on the surface type it creates.

Also, just to clarify, I can now confirm that surfaces created by spells use the Casters Spellcasting DC

Just cast Ice Storm creating an Ice Surface, that Surface used my Wizards Spellcasting DC for the Prone Condition