Just hit Lv.5 Wizard and a bit overwhelmed with spell selection

[Rich_T]

Hi all,

First time playing BG3 and still very early in (just completed the burning village across the bridge you first jump). I'm playing as Gale and my party (Shadow, Ariston and the Gilth lady Lez) have just hit level 5.
Really enjoying and have tried to read/collect/explore as much as possible so far but still learning the mechanics especially for Spells although think I understand now.

I feel a bit overwhelmed with the amount of spells available (Gale) and which to select. I've fallen into a bit of a routine where i'll just use Burning Hands for the majority of time but realise I should start to experiment more.
My question is - (because I don't know which Spells to add to spellbook) if I make a poor choice (on the level up screen) can I still get access to these spells from a trader? So far i've yet to see any spells in trading screen (what about cantrips?).

Something I was looking forward to adding was the Speak With Animals spell but I can't see that being offered at all. I used a potion once but now that I have long rested it is gone.

I guess my question is - any spells that would be a good choice to select as a newly lv.5 wizard?

Thanks

[kingonads]

Originally posted by Rich_T:

Originally posted by kingonads:

You choose a school at level 2 for a wizard. If you didnt choose then he is an Evocation wizard.

I'll remember that for future play-throughs :) I'll stick with Evocation then. thanks :)

Good luck.

Wizard is my second favorite class to play in D&D. But it is a LOT of thinking and planning.

Which is why my favorite is a Druid... when you want to cast spells but occasionally want to hit something with a stick.

[harken23]

You can re-spec if you want to, by talking to Withers in camp. But you can't go too far wrong with Gale as an Evoker. I"ve been digging him as an Abjurer, which is also well done.

[FunkyMonkey]

Little late, but my first picks are almost always Counterspell and Haste. Good luck :)

[seeker1]

Yeah, you can't get Counterspell from scrolls, and from a defensive perspective, one of the best in the game. It's a "set it and forget it" type spell, like Shield, just prepare it, and wait for it to activate as a reaction. (And I've noticed it does react to spells cast not just at you but anybody in the party.) That plus Psionic Backlash and Dominance, and you can really punish those enemy spellcasters.

You can Counterspell spells of a higher level - it can be upcast BUT IF you cast it at level 3 to block a level 5 enemy spell, it requires a check to succeed. So it can work against higher level spells even if not upcast.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Yeah, you can't get Counterspell from scrolls, and from a defensive perspective, one of the best in the game. It's a "set it and forget it" type spell, like Shield, just prepare it, and wait for it to activate as a reaction. (And I've noticed it does react to spells cast not just at you but anybody in the party.) That plus Psionic Backlash and Dominance, and you can really punish those enemy spellcasters.

There are not a lot of situations I feel counterspell warrants it´s level 3 spell slot would take haste or fireball over it any day.

[Gaius]

Originally posted by Rich_T:

Hi all,

...
I feel a bit overwhelmed with the amount of spells available (Gale) and which to select. I've fallen into a bit of a routine where i'll just use Burning Hands for the majority of time but realise I should start to experiment more.
My question is - (because I don't know which Spells to add to spellbook) if I make a poor choice (on the level up screen) can I still get access to these spells from a trader? So far i've yet to see any spells in trading screen (what about cantrips?).

...
I guess my question is - any spells that would be a good choice to select as a newly lv.5 wizard?

Thanks

Haste unless you have a sorcerer in your party (because sorcs can twinned cast it) and probably fireball because it's sooo good early on. But don't stress too much, you can learn spells from scrolls and also respec wit withers if you really regret some choices.

[seeker1]

One weird thing:

I've noticed counterspell can counter any spell cast in your vicinity, including if the enemy casts spells to buff or teleport themselves or summon undead or allies. You'll get prompted to react: if you don't want to waste it to block a cast of Bless, don't bother. But generally, yeah, the number of encounters where you are facing enemy spellcasters is usually low, and after your first playthrough, you generally know where they are.

Situationally,

It's odd, I've noticed it SOMETIMES blocks Dolor from dimension dooring away when you face him at Cora's, so he dies there and you don't have to stop him at Figaro's.

The weird thing is, I think that is not meant to happen, plot-wise, and I've noticed attempting to counterspell his teleporting away USUALLY fails.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by AokiYakumo:

In general, here is a list of spells from each spell level I'd try to pick up via leveling:

- 1st Level: Chromatic Orb, Longstrider, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Shield, Thunderwave
- 2nd Level: Cloud of Daggers, Misty Step
- 3rd Level: Counterspell, Haste, Lightning Bolt, Slow
- 4th Level: Wall of Fire
- 5th Level: Conjure Elemental, Telekinesis
- 6th Level: Chain Lightning, Globe of Invulnerability

This is a pretty good list, but I want to offer other fun options

Lvl 1:

Enhance Leap - it's a ritual spell so you can cast it for free and having long jumps is useful in exploration pretty often if you look around

Feather Fall - similar to above, works well with it

Tasha's Hideous Laughter - this one is incredible later on if you can get some spell DC bonuses. At that point most lvl 1 spells are outscaled but this can still take an enemy out of a fight while conserving more valuable slots

Sleep - reverse Tasha's, great early thanks to no save, probably useless by lvl 5

Lvl 2:

Detect thoughts - only if wizard is having the conversations, but ALWAYS if they are

Lvl 3:

As mentioned elsewhere, Hypnotic Pattern is amazing as an AOE disable spell (hitting enemies breaks it but who cares, just kill the ones who saved first)

Glyph of Warding is like a slightly worse fireball that you can also use to do different damage types, knockback, or be a 2 round sleep spell.

[Oozy Monster]

Originally posted by harken23:

What did you specialize in? Evocation is a bit over powered, bkz you can just fireball/lightening bolt everything and not worry about hitting your friends (so it's a great choice!). Look at what scrolls you already have (you can learn spells from them for some coin, 150p for 3rd level), and don't take those at level-up. You can come across cantrip scrolls, but there aren't a ton of them. If you can find an Eldritch Blast scroll get it (tho you might not see one til you get to the city).

The important thing to do, tho, is experiment. A lot of problems can be solved by a well-placed fireball, but it's not necessarily the best or most interesting approach.

Wait. . .there's an eldritch blast scroll? I've never seen one, I thought it's just a warlock thing with maybe a couple feats like spell sniper or magic initiate to pick it up or a magical secret option for bards. But if there is a scroll I missed and a wizard could learn it that could be interesting.

[identity]

There are many good control spells that I used on my Bard that a Wizard would also have access to. Hold Person/Monster is just plain dirty, and can trivialize some encounters. Misty Step and Dimension Door are excellent tools for repositioning. Level 3 slots are by far the quickest to go in an encounter because Call Lightning, Fireball and Haste are all great spells, just be careful about Call Lightning and Haste because they're both concentration spells and only one can be active at a time. Confusion and Silence are fun to play with, as well, especially the latter since anyone you kill inside the silence bubble counts as a stealth kill, as long as no one saw it. Detect Thoughts is also useful for dialogue if you're in to that.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by seeker1:

One weird thing:

I've noticed counterspell can counter any spell cast in your vicinity, including if the enemy casts spells to buff or teleport themselves or summon undead or allies. You'll get prompted to react: if you don't want to waste it to block a cast of Bless, don't bother. But generally, yeah, the number of encounters where you are facing enemy spellcasters is usually low, and after your first playthrough, you generally know where they are.

Situationally,

It's odd, I've noticed it SOMETIMES blocks Dolor from dimension dooring away when you face him at Cora's, so he dies there and you don't have to stop him at Figaro's.

The weird thing is, I think that is not meant to happen, plot-wise, and I've noticed attempting to counterspell his teleporting away USUALLY fails.

To the spoiler part just have alert character or use vigilance elixirs + hellrider longbow normally this will be enough to go first. Or at least the way I build my characters since they all have 16 dex always even my casters do.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by AokiYakumo:

In general, here is a list of spells from each spell level I'd try to pick up via leveling:

- 1st Level: Chromatic Orb, Longstrider, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Shield, Thunderwave
- 2nd Level: Cloud of Daggers, Misty Step
- 3rd Level: Counterspell, Haste, Lightning Bolt, Slow
- 4th Level: Wall of Fire
- 5th Level: Conjure Elemental, Telekinesis
- 6th Level: Chain Lightning, Globe of Invulnerability

This is a pretty good list, but I want to offer other fun options

Lvl 2:

Detect thoughts - only if wizard is having the conversations, but ALWAYS if they are

Glyph of Warding is like a slightly worse fireball that you can also use to do different damage types, knockback, or be a 2 round sleep spell.

Detect thought is sort of worthless by the fact if you are picking the random mats around the map you will have a million Potion of Mind Reading which last until long rests. Which makes the cast version even worse since you need to keep re-applying it due to it being a con spell.

Also warding by far best use is sleep sadly it is hard to have a situation were you get max value out of the ward then again it is no different to fireball in that sense.

[AokiYakumo]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by AokiYakumo:

In general, here is a list of spells from each spell level I'd try to pick up via leveling:

- 1st Level: Chromatic Orb, Longstrider, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Shield, Thunderwave
- 2nd Level: Cloud of Daggers, Misty Step
- 3rd Level: Counterspell, Haste, Lightning Bolt, Slow
- 4th Level: Wall of Fire
- 5th Level: Conjure Elemental, Telekinesis
- 6th Level: Chain Lightning, Globe of Invulnerability

This is a pretty good list, but I want to offer other fun options

Lvl 1:

Enhance Leap - it's a ritual spell so you can cast it for free and having long jumps is useful in exploration pretty often if you look around

Feather Fall - similar to above, works well with it

Tasha's Hideous Laughter - this one is incredible later on if you can get some spell DC bonuses. At that point most lvl 1 spells are outscaled but this can still take an enemy out of a fight while conserving more valuable slots

Sleep - reverse Tasha's, great early thanks to no save, probably useless by lvl 5

Lvl 2:

Detect thoughts - only if wizard is having the conversations, but ALWAYS if they are

Lvl 3:

As mentioned elsewhere, Hypnotic Pattern is amazing as an AOE disable spell (hitting enemies breaks it but who cares, just kill the ones who saved first)

Glyph of Warding is like a slightly worse fireball that you can also use to do different damage types, knockback, or be a 2 round sleep spell.

Those level 1 options are all amazing pickups, don't get me wrong. My only consideration with those is you usually end up picking those up via scrolls by the time they really start needing to come online.

Jump + Feather Fall get major usage in spots like the Underdark where you can use it to traverse huge swaths of terrain without expending an action, and you get both scrolls from Arron if you're 3rd level or higher - which you usually are by the time you complete the first Grove fight.

Similar with Hideous Laughter and Sleep. Except, with Sleep I can see the idea to pick it as one of your level 2 pick-ups, for said initial Grove fight. You can use it to halve the enemy's action economy on Balanced or at the least take two of the goblins out of commission at the start of the fight, which is a huge swing in momentum.

Detect Thoughts is wierd. It's both amazing and mid at the same time because failing those checks (which are INT checks despite the initial dialogue tooltip for them asking for WIS) usually results in immediate combat which can gimp certain outcomes (losing Titanstring from Brem because you angered Rugan, or losing Arabella because you angered Kagha, for example). You also get a scroll of it innately just by having SHeart in your party (she starts with one), so you can always just learn it from the scroll.

2nd level spells are also pretty dicey because there's a bunch of good options here to pick up, namely Darkness, Cloud of Daggers, Flaming Sphere, Misty Step, Web, Shatter (specifically for the orb-eye-things), etc, and you only get 4 free picks before 5th level to choose for spells of 1st/2nd level, so making them count can be huge.

Hyp.Pattern's great. No contest there. If you already got Lightning Bolt or Haste from a scroll by this point (which is theoretically possible to do but requires good RNG), picking it can be huge. I remember completely cheesing the House of Grief with it because it's a WIS save on a bunch of goons with sh*t WIS and insta-breaks concentration effects like Darkness. Only problem: you're just as likely to pick up Hyp.Pattern from a scroll as you are Lightning Bolt of Glyph of Warding, and LB/GoW get better immediate returns than Hyp.Pattern since Hyp.Pattern has to compete with Hideous Laughter, Command, Hunger of Hadar, Sleet Storm, Spike/Plant Growth, etc., in terms of control. Because of that, it's usually better to get it from a scroll than it is to get it from a free pick-up which can go to GoW which has crazy versatility.

And of course, Glyph of Warding's stupid. It's one of the best AoE blast spells in the game because it can proc off Wet for double damage, charge Arcane Wards, be pre-cast on top of a group of neutral baddies before they go hostile (which is a free-hit of damage), and comes with 2 insane crowd control effects. It just has to compete with Lightning Bolt for pure burst damage (10d8 v. 16d6 so averages are 45 v. 56) or Haste for the action eeconomy, and Counterspell is un-scribable, so picking it and either Haste or Slow are game-changers at 5th.

[Quillithe]

Yeah that's all pretty true - I think sleep has good cause to get from level up just because it becomes useless so fast but the rest are better from scrolls for sure.

I didn't realize detect thoughts could trigger combat though - I guess maybe I never failed any of the rolls. Using it on Vlaakith was fun.

[alanc9]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Originally posted by seeker1:

Yeah, you can't get Counterspell from scrolls, and from a defensive perspective, one of the best in the game. It's a "set it and forget it" type spell, like Shield, just prepare it, and wait for it to activate as a reaction. (And I've noticed it does react to spells cast not just at you but anybody in the party.) That plus Psionic Backlash and Dominance, and you can really punish those enemy spellcasters.

There are not a lot of situations I feel counterspell warrants it´s level 3 spell slot would take haste or fireball over it any day.

You've never had your whole party targeted by a DC 17 Fear spell? I've had that happen twice in the same encounter.