Potion of Everlasting Vigour shadownerfed?

[RhodosGuard]

For some reason, when using the Potion on my 20 Strength Fighter, it only increases Strength to 21 instead of 22.

Just as a Test I quickloaded, redid the whole shebang and made my Rogue at 8 Strength take it, bringing them to 10.
So what is going on here? Was +6 too mighty?

[alanc9]

So the real use of the potion is to save a feat?

[RhodosGuard]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย AokiYakumo:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

Maybe I wouldnt have taunted people when they ignored screenshots of the perceived problem and instead try to come up with reasons that were disproven by said screenshots.

I'd also like to add, that, funnily enough, the only half-feat I have used up till now, Tavern Brawler, seems to be the only half feat that doesnt share this restriction.

I also just tested this:
Tavern Brawler can in fact increase Strength to 22 with Potion.

So out of all the half feats, most of which are niche at best at crap at worst, with only things like "Resilient: Con" standing out, the most broken of them actually lets you achieve 22.

Maybe you SHOULDN'T have taunted people in the first place.

Next time before you mald on someone, take a step back, take another look at the situation, LISTEN to what people are telling you, and reassses with the new perspective.

Attacking people for giving feedback makes people not want to give you feedback.

I did listen to what people told me, and none of what they told me was the reason for the problem.
Their input was easily falsifiable.

[TaKo]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

Apart from that they dont, because Tavern Brawler does not.

nope, unless you modded your game to remove that cap, it caps out at 20, like every other feat ASI

[AokiYakumo]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย AokiYakumo:

Maybe you SHOULDN'T have taunted people in the first place.

Next time before you mald on someone, take a step back, take another look at the situation, LISTEN to what people are telling you, and reassses with the new perspective.

Attacking people for giving feedback makes people not want to give you feedback.

I did listen to what people told me, and none of what they told me was the reason for the problem.
Their input was easily falsifiable.

No you didn't. You stroked out like Dylan Hollis on a bad vintage recipe.

Had you done what I recommended, you maybe would've seen the issue before alienating like 7 users, and left with a funny story to tell. Now it's just sad, and will always be sad, because you tweaked.

[RhodosGuard]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย alanc9:

So the real use of the potion is to save a feat?

Not really.
It depends on what you shoot to do with it.
I prefer using it to get to 22, since it is one of only 2 ways to reliably get a stat to 22 (the other being Mirror of Loss)

If you are OK with only ever getting to 20, then yes, you could use it to take a feat instead of an ASI.

If you want to to get to 22, the only ways to do so would be using full ASIs, which may be inefficient if you are setup with no odd ability scores, meaning that at least 1 point gained by ASIs is wasted on making an ability score odd. Or Tavern Brawler (as it is verified that Tavern Brawler does not limit itself to a maximum of 20, as all other Half Feats do)

This isnt a drastic problem, it just changes how you setup strength based characters that do not use Tavern Brawler.

I am more upset by the fact, that they gave this unique behavior to feat that adds +10 Free Damage to Unarmed/Improvised Attacks, being the equivalent of Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter, without the -5 to your To-Hit and a +1 to Strength.

[RhodosGuard]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย TaKo:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

Apart from that they dont, because Tavern Brawler does not.

nope, unless you modded your game to remove that cap, it caps out at 20, like every other feat ASI

Please do not make me get screenshots.

Oops too late.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046269101/screenshot/5845183706757507936/
I take TB at level 4
-> STR 18

At level 6 I take an ASI to get to 20
AT level 8 I take an ASI to increase DEX/CON

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046269101/screenshot/5845183706757509202/

I use the Potion

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046269101/screenshot/5845183706757508209/

And End up at 22

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย AokiYakumo:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

I did listen to what people told me, and none of what they told me was the reason for the problem.
Their input was easily falsifiable.

No you didn't. You stroked out like Dylan Hollis on a bad vintage recipe.

Had you done what I recommended, you maybe would've seen the issue before alienating like 7 users, and left with a funny story to tell. Now it's just sad, and will always be sad, because you tweaked.

OH NO.
Anyway.

[TheBuch]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย AokiYakumo:

Maybe you SHOULDN'T have taunted people in the first place.

Next time before you mald on someone, take a step back, take another look at the situation, LISTEN to what people are telling you, and reassses with the new perspective.

Attacking people for giving feedback makes people not want to give you feedback.

I did listen to what people told me, and none of what they told me was the reason for the problem.
Their input was easily falsifiable.

But everything they said gave reasons that your original question as to whether it had been nerfed was not the case. And they turned out to be correct about that, even if they didn't land on the exact solution. They were helping you find a solution and you acted like a big baby. You should apologise to them.

[TaKo]

do you understand that 17+1+2 = 20, which is the cap of ASI increases via feats correct? which is.. what i said? + potion it then becomes 22, as expected

potion, devilfoil mask, hag hair and broken promises elixir = no cap(afaik, tho the last one then inflicts a permanent debuff)
mirror = cap of 24
feats = cap of 20
mighty cloth = cap of 20
harmonium halberd = cap of 23

the game will 1st use whatever you have with the lowest cap then proceed in order to try to give you the best ability score you can get while sitll respecting the appropriate caps

ability score overrides will instead set it to the designated value unless you can get it higher by any other means

[RhodosGuard]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย TheBuch:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

I did listen to what people told me, and none of what they told me was the reason for the problem.
Their input was easily falsifiable.

But everything they said gave reasons that your original question as to whether it had been nerfed was not the case. And they turned out to be correct about that, even if they didn't land on the exact solution. They were helping you find a solution and you acted like a big baby. You should apologise to them.

I am sorry that I was slightly more aggressive that I should have been, even if everything you suggested was easy for me to falsify.

[RhodosGuard]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย TaKo:

do you understand that 17+1+2 = 20, which is the cap of ASI increases via feats correct? which is.. what i said?

potion, devilfoil mask, hag hair and broken promises elixir = no cap(afaik, tho the last one then inflicts a permanent debuff)
mirror = cap of 24
feats = cap of 20
mighty cloth = cap of 20
harmonium halberd = cap of 23

the game will 1st use whatever you have with the lowest cap then proceed in order to try to give you the best ability score you can get while sitll respecting the appropriate caps

ability score overrides will instead set it to the designated value unless you can get it higher by any other means

Look. My Dude, my buddy, my friend.
I know I just apologised for being overly aggressive. But I cant point it out any more than I just did.

The exact same build.
The EXACT same build.
With Heavy Armor Master lands me at 21
With Tavern Brawler lands me at 22.

You do you and try and find the reason for that, when "all Feats that grant abilities work the same"

[TaKo]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

You do you and try and find the reason for that, when "all Feats that grant abilities work the same"

consiering that would still put u below the cap of 20 even if heavy armour master was failing to apply the issue is clearly either a faulty mod, file or bug, as the feat's description itself states it is supposed to work up until 20, like every other feat ASI

looking it up online it does seem like its a matter of a bug with HAM specifically, causing it to look at total STR rather than base STR, making it stop applying itself if you get from 19 to 20 by any other source, such as the potion's +2

try testing it with other feats that can increase STR besides HAM or TB: resilient, athelete, heavily armoured, lightly armoured, moderately armoured, weapon master, i'll go look in the files whats causing this

[AokiYakumo]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย TheBuch:

But everything they said gave reasons that your original question as to whether it had been nerfed was not the case. And they turned out to be correct about that, even if they didn't land on the exact solution. They were helping you find a solution and you acted like a big baby. You should apologise to them.

I am sorry that I was slightly more aggressive that I should have been, even if everything you suggested was easy for me to falsify.

How about an ACTUAL APOLOGY, not some emotional manipulation?

[RhodosGuard]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย TaKo:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

You do you and try and find the reason for that, when "all Feats that grant abilities work the same"

consiering that would still put u below the cap of 20 even if heavy armour master was failing to apply the issue is clearly either a faulty mod, file or bug, as the feat's description itself states it is supposed to work up until 20, like every other feat ASI

looking it up online it does seem like its a matter of a bug with HAM specifically

try testing it with other feats that can increase STR besides HAM or TB: resilient, athelete, heavily armoured, lightly armoured, moderately armoured, weapon master

What?

Look.
I will do the Maths again for you:

I start with 17 Strength:
15 from Point Buy
+2 Racial (+2/+1)

At level 4 I take TB/HAM
17+1 -> 18

AT level 6 I take
ASI
18+2 -> 20

At level 8 I dont increase strength because I cannot.
20 + 0 =0

I take Potion ->
TB -> 20+2 22
HAKM -> 20+2 (-1) 21

I'd also like to correct you, as you can see in my screenshot, it doesnt mention the Additional Point in STR/CON at all and therefore also doesnt list a maximum.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046269101/screenshot/5845183706757507936/

So either HAM is bugged and applies its maximum the wrong way or TB is bugged and applies it's maximum the wrong way.
Retesting with Athlete does indeed reveal, that it is apparently HAM that applies it's Bonus to Strength the wrong way, as with Athlete I was also able to 22


Which retroactively makes it less stupid of me to not immediately assume HAM would be the problem.

[RhodosGuard]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย AokiYakumo:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

I am sorry that I was slightly more aggressive that I should have been, even if everything you suggested was easy for me to falsify.

How about an ACTUAL APOLOGY, not some emotional manipulation?

You're not my dad.

[Nauct]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RhodosGuard:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย TaKo:

nope, unless you modded your game to remove that cap, it caps out at 20, like every other feat ASI

Please do not make me get screenshots.

Oops too late.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046269101/screenshot/5845183706757507936/
I take TB at level 4
-> STR 18

At level 6 I take an ASI to get to 20
AT level 8 I take an ASI to increase DEX/CON

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046269101/screenshot/5845183706757509202/

I use the Potion

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046269101/screenshot/5845183706757508209/

And End up at 22

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย AokiYakumo:

No you didn't. You stroked out like Dylan Hollis on a bad vintage recipe.

Had you done what I recommended, you maybe would've seen the issue before alienating like 7 users, and left with a funny story to tell. Now it's just sad, and will always be sad, because you tweaked.

OH NO.
Anyway.

My Lae'zel has 22 STR with the potion, this is correct

Also someone being ♥♥♥♥♥♥ isn't gonna alienate people. You can talk ♥♥♥♥ and be friends