Who, or What is Withers?

[Jaeleth]

The final, the very final scene before the credits by the end of the game... At a time I thought him to be Jergal. Like as if he was despising the human minions he gave his (split) power to. I mean, being able to cast ressurect at will does gives an hint of immense, godlike, power. And yet... He mentioned, at a time, of the other gods watching (the dead 3's actions). Like as if he was a tool, a messenger, of other gods, of all of them?

Your opinions?

[Яeplicant]

Well. he still is Jergal.

[LordNibbler]

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Crumbling_Journal

PS: I'm not surprised that many people don't find a certain book like this, seeing how they play the game...

[Jaeleth]

Messaggio originale di LordNibbler:

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Crumbling_Journal

PS: I'm not surprised that many people don't find a certain book like this, seeing how they play the game...

And how would I be playing the game, may I ask you?

Still... I have checked every barrel and read more than 100 books, or so it once warned the achievement pertaining that score. And I was on that mausoleum... Apparently I missed that one. Or... Most likely, I also read that book but could never remember long enough to correlate it to Withers speech... I mean it's hard enough to remember locations when my graphics card, Larian courtesy, cannot display the minimap, let alone memorize the contents of hundreds of books and parchements... Particularly those whose usefulness expire the moment you read them.

[Hex]

He is a god with no sphere so he's just chilling.

[LordNibbler]

Messaggio originale di Jaeleth:

And how would I be playing the game, may I ask you?

Still... I have checked every barrel and read more than 100 books, or so it once warned the achievement pertaining that score. And I was on that mausoleum... Apparently I missed that one.

Sorry that came out a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥, it was not really directed at you... just had read one of the other threads where "someone describes how they don't notice something so f'n obvious" (which also happens incredibly often, reading all the things here) that I don't expect a single book like this to be found. Again, my apologies to you.

[You Touched My Tralala]

I was trying to put 2 and 2 together about Jergal and his appearance and apparent involvement in entire Dead Three ordeal.

When one asks Withers why is he doing helping he will reply that somebody of higher rank than him called him to assist (or something along the lines) and that it is not his own will to help. - probably he is talking about Ao who ordered Withers to clean his own mess. And if Withers is Jergal it is clear as day what mess he's supposed to clean meaning Dead Threes' champions

He also is found in Jergal temple albeit not clear why would Jergal rest in this specific place being Sword Coast aside obvious reason that he *had* to be found by MC - Jergal supposedly was awaiting for next Dead Three shenanigans so he could intervene. And it just so happens that Withers lies in Jergal's temple.

While it is not clear if Withers is actually Jergal, he's still very much related some way to Jergal. Could be his emanation, physical embodiment of Jergal's will or Avatar. Could be his disciple as silly as it may sound.

[seeker1]

Ya know, it's weird. Not only are there hints in game, but the Forgotten Realms Wiki pretty much spells much of this out, at this point.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Jergal

During the events surrounding the rise of the cult of the Absolute in the Year of Three Ships Sailing, 1492 DR, Jergal manifested an avatar called Withers in a temple dedicated to himself that had lain abandoned for over a century—or rather, interred his avatar within the temple at some point in the past so that the adventurers from the nautiloid would eventually awaken it. As Withers, Jergal provided magical support to the adventurers, in exchange for a pittance of coin compared to the usual cost of such services. He accompanied the group on their journey, but aside from resurrecting dead allies and summoning additional help when asked for, he did not intervene directly.

After the war the Absolute rained on the city of Baldur's Gate and many of its citizens suffered ceremorphosis, Jergal-as-Withers confronted a mural of his three inheritors—Bhaal, Myrkul, and Bane. Jergal explained that the souls of mortals vanished when they were transformed into Mind Flayers, thus failing to bolster their power, a fact that other gods had noticed.
[snip][end]

The point is Jergal is just a seneschal (servant) to Kelemvor at this point. As he says, kind of just somebody else's servant. He surrendered his portfoilio to the Dead Three, and now that they are back in action, he has obvious reasons for hating them and the plot they've launched for more power.

[Big Moustache]

He is no God for he has no worshippers. He does things no divinity can do. And his surprised Pikachu face in the spirit realm, dude wtf, your soul is stil intact? I thought it had perished. It seems your journey is far from over. And than he get all stoic again 😂

[Matunus]

Technically Jergal is still a Lesser or Demi God. He has no more active temples though and only a few worshipers who are accepted at temples to Kelemvor and Oghma.

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Messaggio originale di seeker1:

Ya know, it's weird. Not only are there hints in game, but the Forgotten Realms Wiki pretty much spells much of this out, at this point.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Jergal

During the events surrounding the rise of the cult of the Absolute in the Year of Three Ships Sailing, 1492 DR, Jergal manifested an avatar called Withers in a temple dedicated to himself that had lain abandoned for over a century—or rather, interred his avatar within the temple at some point in the past so that the adventurers from the nautiloid would eventually awaken it. As Withers, Jergal provided magical support to the adventurers, in exchange for a pittance of coin compared to the usual cost of such services. He accompanied the group on their journey, but aside from resurrecting dead allies and summoning additional help when asked for, he did not intervene directly.

After the war the Absolute rained on the city of Baldur's Gate and many of its citizens suffered ceremorphosis, Jergal-as-Withers confronted a mural of his three inheritors—Bhaal, Myrkul, and Bane. Jergal explained that the souls of mortals vanished when they were transformed into Mind Flayers, thus failing to bolster their power, a fact that other gods had noticed.
[snip][end]

The point is Jergal is just a seneschal (servant) to Kelemvor at this point. As he says, kind of just somebody else's servant. He surrendered his portfoilio to the Dead Three, and now that they are back in action, he has obvious reasons for hating them and the plot they've launched for more power.

The wiki is fritten by fans and the source for that part is Baldurs Gate 3.
While I agree, the wiki doesn't get us really closer, then what is ingame...;)

[Matunus]

The best description of Jergal is in the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms book Faiths and Pantheons.

[Ghost]

Messaggio originale di CriticalMissClick:

The wiki is fritten by fans and the source for that part is Baldurs Gate 3.
While I agree, the wiki doesn't get us really closer, then what is ingame...;)

Some of the options when talking to him do basically out him as an Avatar of Jergal, rather than Jergal himself, so that wiki article at least does seem to be accurate.

[space cowgirl joy]

he is an avatar of Jergal the scribe of the dead

[jait]

He's Jergal. Real question is: Are you his Chosen?

We will never know and none of it is canon. Sorry just wont be. They played fast and loose with D&D lore. Some of it is outright ridiculous and just fanwank. Like Jergal rezzing elves. Pulling people from the Wall/Fugue (Kelemvor/Mykrul cannot and it's a big part of their story). Illithid with souls. Hell, Illithids with personalities. Karsus. Mystral. Avatars. Deva's who aren't Deva's.

Having Preying Mantis God show up with Ao's powers was the least cringe worthy lore change.

[Chris]

Withers is thinly veiled game mechanic to allow you to create companions.