Wyll's quest Act 1 [may contain spoilers]

[Glyxkeks]

Hey,
since the loophole is plugged, what do you say, Infernal Robes or Karlach? Normally I would choose a Partymember over equipment, but those robes are presumably the best ones in the game and that in the early stages.

[BionicDance]

I'm a bit biased; I have this horrible crush on Karlach.
And I'm really not Wyll's biggest fan.

What do the infernal robes do?

[God Queen 158]

I love the look of the Infernal Robes, but storyline-wise you don't get anything interesting from going that route. Wyll never regrets his pact but complains the whole game about it regardless which route you take.

I reloaded on my first run because it was more interesting to have Karlach. I ended up just using a mod to get the robes.

[Orion Invictus]

Karlach.

[Tresh]

Karlach all the way. The robe is neat, but there are other good robes to give to a mage and Karlach is not only delightful to have around, but also a useful, contributing member to the party.

Originally posted by BionicDance:

And I'm really not Wyll's biggest fan.

We have that in common. He only is allowed to stick around in my playthroughs because I like Mizora.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Tresh:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

And I'm really not Wyll's biggest fan.

We have that in common. He only is allowed to stick around in my playthroughs because I like Mizora.

I tried to kill Mizora, but she keeps coming back. Heh.

I hesitate to make the comparison because they unfortunately also look similar, but... I can't be the only one who kinda thinks of Wyll as the Preston Garvey of BG3, just in terms of being the same kind of annoying.

[Settings]

It is a little hard to sympathize with Wyll the same way as the rest of the party. Every other companion is a victim of circumstance. Lae'zel is being used by an uncaring "god," Gale accidentally absorbed a bomb in service to a woman he loved, Karlach was sold as a child and implanted with a bomb, Astarion was kidnapped and turned in to a vampire, and then Wyll just like... is a moron who makes bad choices.

"Mizora lied to me!"

Oh did the blue woman with horns and bat wings who smells like sulfur lie to you? I'm so shocked. Look at me, being shocked.

[God Queen 158]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

I hesitate to make the comparison because they unfortunately also look similar, but... I can't be the only one who kinda thinks of Wyll as the Preston Garvey of BG3, just in terms of being the same kind of annoying.

It's because writers are too afraid to write complex black men. They emasculate their personalities to make them more acceptable to people. They are given unrealistic heroic archetypes that lack the complex motivations given to typical male heroes.

Wyll was far more interesting when he had a hateboner for goblins. At least then I knew he had one. But that was too much for some of ya'll during early access and Larian caved to make him more "acceptable".

Now I have to deal with a man who constantly talks about saving people when he never lifts a finger to save himself. And on top of that - he becomes this bizarre fever dream of a character because he is never given agency in the game's own mechanics to make his own decisions. Unlike every other companion in the game. He doesn't feel real at all. Just like Preston Garvey.

I blame Larian because I remember the character Wyll used to be from EA, and I otherwise find his writer to be a decent one.

[Settings]

Originally posted by God Queen 158:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

I hesitate to make the comparison because they unfortunately also look similar, but... I can't be the only one who kinda thinks of Wyll as the Preston Garvey of BG3, just in terms of being the same kind of annoying.

It's because writers are too afraid to write complex black men. They emasculate their personalities to make them more acceptable to people. They are given unrealistic heroic archetypes that lack the complex motivations given to typical male heroes.

Wyll was far more interesting when he had a hateboner for goblins. At least then I knew he had one. But that was too much for some of ya'll during early access and Larian caved to make him more "acceptable".

Now I have to deal with a man who constantly talks about saving people when he never lifts a finger to save himself. And on top of that - he becomes this bizarre fever dream of a character because he is never given agency in the game's own mechanics to make his own decisions. Unlike every other companion in the game. He doesn't feel real at all. Just like Preston Garvey.

I blame Larian because I remember the character Wyll used to be from EA, and I otherwise find his writer to be a decent one.

This is the biggest part of it yeah, he was a better character at one point and people threw a fit that he was "unlikable" and it all boiled down to black man with personality offending the same people who called Astarion slurs because of his voice. Larian tried to rewrite and revoice Wyll's entire storyline at the last minute and left it feeling boring and weak in comparison to everyone else.

[arador]

if there is no other mage who uses charisma for spells on your party, you will have the greatest robe after a while, if you do certain things that is. and you shouldn't be playing the dark urge.
you can give that robe to wyll and he'll do wonders with it. so i say it's not worth it.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by God Queen 158:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

I hesitate to make the comparison because they unfortunately also look similar, but... I can't be the only one who kinda thinks of Wyll as the Preston Garvey of BG3, just in terms of being the same kind of annoying.

It's because writers are too afraid to write complex black men.

I mean, that may be so, but I wouldn't enjoy Wyll as the pastiest white girl ever, either.
I mean, Settings is right: his story is mostly him being a dumbass who made bad choices; I don't care what someone looks like... that's an annoying character.

They emasculate their personalities to make them more acceptable to people. They are given unrealistic heroic archetypes that lack the complex motivations given to typical male heroes.

I'm reminded of that scene in "Beverly Hills Cop" where Axel is talkin' to the black detective... you know the scene I mean if you've seen it.
"We're not gonna fall for a banana in the tailpipe...?" That scene.

Wyll was far more interesting when he had a hateboner for goblins. At least then I knew he had one. But that was too much for some of ya'll during early access and Larian caved to make him more "acceptable".

I feel I missed a lot by not indulging in early access. Ah, well.

It would be nice if Wyll were a more relatable character, and less of a dip.

Unlike every other companion in the game. He doesn't feel real at all. Just like Preston Garvey.

So you see it too.

I think part of the problem with Wyll is that I see choices he could have made to achieve the same result. I see choices that the game doesn't give you which I, me, my own personal self would have totally done in a table-top game (probably to the annoyance of the DM).
I'm the sort who would go, "Three wishes...? Okay, my first wish is that every wish--including this one--be granted as I intend without unwelcome/unseen consequences." Sure, that wastes a wish, but you avoid any "monkey's paw" backlash when the genie/demon/whatever decides to rules-lawyer your phrasing.

And when I see Wyll not being afforded those choices, I grump a little.

I blame Larian because I remember the character Wyll used to be from EA, and I otherwise find his writer to be a decent one.

Well, I wouldn't know on that one.
I just know that Wyll is the runner up for partymember I like least. (Shadowheart... I have never finished the game with Shadowheart in my party. Gads, I loathe her.)

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Settings:

offending the same people who called Astarion slurs because of his voice.

Ehhh... I get that one, tho.
He's so... snotty. "Spoiled rich-boy" is what comes to mind. Like a foppish second or third son of a prominent nobleman who is a little miffed he's not in the line of succession, and her's taking it out on the world.
You know...like Veruca Salt, but in the body of an adult male vampire: entitled and lacking in empathy.

I'm fairly certain the people you're talking about had different objections, but I just could have been happier with a less obnoxious Astarion.

[Tresh]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Originally posted by Settings:

offending the same people who called Astarion slurs because of his voice.

Ehhh... I get that one, tho.
He's so... snotty. "Spoiled rich-boy" is what comes to mind. Like a foppish second or third son of a prominent nobleman who is a little miffed he's not in the line of succession, and her's taking it out on the world.
You know...like Veruca Salt, but in the body of an adult male vampire: entitled and lacking in empathy.

I'm fairly certain the people you're talking about had different objections, but I just could have been happier with a less obnoxious Astarion.

Honestly, obnoxious is just part of the mask he puts on so people don't get too close. It's easier for people not to care when they find you irritating.
Astarion can be genuinely heartfelt and sweet, it just takes a long time to get him to that point and whenever he's afraid, nervous or uncomfortable, he will be a snarky pain in your rear.

[Settings]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Originally posted by Settings:

offending the same people who called Astarion slurs because of his voice.

Ehhh... I get that one, tho.
He's so... snotty. "Spoiled rich-boy" is what comes to mind. Like a foppish second or third son of a prominent nobleman who is a little miffed he's not in the line of succession, and her's taking it out on the world.
You know...like Veruca Salt, but in the body of an adult male vampire: entitled and lacking in empathy.

I'm fairly certain the people you're talking about had different objections, but I just could have been happier with a less obnoxious Astarion.

Yeah I was trying to find a nice way to say people were complaining about Astarion sounded too gay lol

But yeah, Astarion is very obnoxious when you first meet him and only gets more pathetic and opportunistic as the game proceeds (which is the intent I suppose)

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Tresh:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Ehhh... I get that one, tho.
He's so... snotty. "Spoiled rich-boy" is what comes to mind. Like a foppish second or third son of a prominent nobleman who is a little miffed he's not in the line of succession, and her's taking it out on the world.
You know...like Veruca Salt, but in the body of an adult male vampire: entitled and lacking in empathy.

I'm fairly certain the people you're talking about had different objections, but I just could have been happier with a less obnoxious Astarion.

Honestly, obnoxious is just part of the mask he puts on so people don't get too close. It's easier for people not to care when they find you irritating.
Astarion can be genuinely heartfelt and sweet, it just takes a long time to get him to that point and whenever he's afraid, nervous or uncomfortable, he will be a snarky pain in your rear.

Maybe, maybe... but I don't hang out with people who exude negative energy in real life, either.

That's something I keep trying to explain to people about why I often watch TV shows that aren't necessarily in my usual wheelhouse: I want to spend a half hour or an hour with those characters.
I don't really want to spend time with Astarion because he's obnoxious. Now...if he went out the other side and went full-on "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia", I might enjoy his character more. But I don't want to spend time with someone who is constantly insulting me with their tone of voice, looking down their nose at me. That's just toxic, regardless of the reason for it.

It's why I almost never have him in my party.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Settings:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Ehhh... I get that one, tho.
He's so... snotty. "Spoiled rich-boy" is what comes to mind. Like a foppish second or third son of a prominent nobleman who is a little miffed he's not in the line of succession, and her's taking it out on the world.
You know...like Veruca Salt, but in the body of an adult male vampire: entitled and lacking in empathy.

I'm fairly certain the people you're talking about had different objections, but I just could have been happier with a less obnoxious Astarion.

Yeah I was trying to find a nice way to say people were complaining about Astarion sounded too gay lol

It's not easy to do.

It's also... well, look: being a lesbian my own darn self, I have tons of gay friends. Heck, half the table at my weekly D&D night is one form of LGBTQ+ or another. And the truth is that precious few of them camp it up like you see on TV or the movies.

Oh, they exist--come visit Seattle sometime--but they're not the default; movies and TV lie to us, as well as politicians.
It's like how almost none of my trans friends do drag or burlesque or anything (that's mostly my goth friends); they just try to fit in. Again, most media and politics lie to people about anything queer-related.

So when I hear a voice like Astarion's, sure, I get why people might think he's necessarily gay, but I also watch a ton of British TV, and I know that the voice and the connotations aren't necessarily in line with each other.

But yeah, Astarion is very obnoxious when you first meet him and only gets more pathetic and opportunistic as the game proceeds (which is the intent I suppose)

I still have no idea why he was cranky with me about how we beat Cazador--or was it Gortash?--on my first run; he threw a tantrum and left the party.