House of Hope? (spoiler)

[Traveler]

Did anyone else find House of Hope a little underwhelming?

First there's the decor, not very hellish imho. And everyone was fine with me just walking around. At least it had some decent loot.

But it was the final fight that fell flat. Did I get it wrong that I had to take the pillars down before I could win, I simply assumed so because that's how boss fights in setting like that usually go. But the was no speech after I knocked the first or last one down. Nor was there a last hit point teleport or dialog, he just died.

[seeker1]

Taking down the pillars weakens Raphael (particularly Raphael's attacks), but it's not necessary to defeat him. And no, you won't see any acknowledgement of you doing so, either by him, or the game.

[nilus]

You didn’t like Raphael singing his own theme music?

[shi-foo ODIO LA LPF]

The House of Hope is like that on purpose. He understands that the devil is the king of deception. He has to make his guests feel "comfortable" and then manipulate them. That is why in act 1 he presents himself to us so kindly and shows us his house to get everything.

Everyone was fine walking with you but there's a reason, I think each person in the house had a different curse or punishment, something like that, that's why they're all crazy. And he makes you take off your armor and put on camp clothes to "pass as a guest." If you want them to be wrong with you and no one feels good about you, put on the armor.

You are wrong about the pillars, they are an indication of Raphael's more power, they are not strictly necessary to win the fight, if you like to play it difficult, don't break them and that's it. Raphael is going to have a very powerful buff if you don't break them, but nothing impossible to win.

There was no speech when winning the fight, I can understand you there. But I don't know how much speech Tav or your teammates would want when talking to a piece of ♥♥♥♥ and self-centered like Raphael. I could tell you that there is no speech because it is a secondary fight or something like that, but Tita Ethel is also a piece of ♥♥♥♥ and at least has her speech. So yes, there could have been a last cutscene, but come on, disappointing you about that makes no sense, everything that is "pre-fight" "preparations" from act 1 to act 3 with Raphael is very good.

And the fight, it is an RPG masterpiece without exaggeration, it has the best SO in the game.
And outside of Baldurs Gate 3 it is an incredible soundtrack that I am very sure will be remembered in years.

It is not the best fight strategically, but I can guarantee you that the music, atmosphere, feeling, the feeling that you are really against a devil and that you have everything to lose feels totally natural (although for obvious reasons you have to win) it is a fight that At all times you feel at a disadvantage and that you really don't think except that you lose in any false step.

[TapewormJim (TJ)]

Originally posted by .Shiifuu:

And the fight, it is an RPG masterpiece without exaggeration, it has the best SO in the game.

I fell off my god-d amned seat laughing - literally...

There are so many people, here and elsewhere, that make these same claims. 'Masterpiece' is kicked around like it has all the weight of a crushed beer can.

Originally posted by Raphael:

Hell, hell, hell has it's laws
Hell, hell, effects and the cause
Curtain falls, but hold your applause
Squirm, squirm, for now down here come the claws

In no way can I imagine anything more naff than this. It's the cheesiest, campest tripe.

I can possibly buy into people liking the character and thinking the fight is 'decent' but a tad hysterical/OTT.

But masterpiece?

So I'm inclined to believe there's something else going on here. As in, they clearly threw a bucket-load of resources at this to try and make this weakly written character memorable. And guess who wrote the character?

Well, I'll say no more, as that'll blow up tediously. But it doesn't take an Einstein to join the dots as to the real motive behind this effusive 'support'.

In short, you're right OP. It's not just lacklustre but cringe to the point of execrable. I had to turn off the sound. I actually felt sorry for the voice actors having to read out ♥♥♥♥♥ like that

[Slav Mcgopnik]

Originally posted by TapewormJim (TJ):

Originally posted by .Shiifuu:

And the fight, it is an RPG masterpiece without exaggeration, it has the best SO in the game.

I feel off my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ seat laughing - literally...

There are so many people, here and elsewhere, that makes these same claims. 'Masterpiece' is kicked around like it has all the weight of a crushed beer can.

Originally posted by Raphael:

Hell, hell, hell has it's laws
Hell, hell, effects and the cause
Curtain falls, but hold your applause
Squirm, squirm, for now down here come the claws

In no way can I imagine anything more naff than this. It's the cheesiest, campest tripe.

I can possibly buy into people liking the character and thinking the fight is 'decent' but a tad hysterical/OTT.

But masterpiece?

So I'm inclined to believe there's something else going on here. As in, they clearly threw a bucket-load of resources at this to try and make this weakly written character memorable. And guess who wrote the character?

Well, I'll say no more, as that'll blow up tediously. But it doesn't take an Einstein to join the dots as to the real motive behind this effusive 'support'.

In short, you're right OP. It's not just lacklustre but cringe to the point of execrable. I had to turn off the sound. I actually felt sorry of the voice actors having to read out ♥♥♥♥♥ like that

I mean, a cheesy self aggrandizing villian song is a perfect fit for Raphael.

Raph’s VA wasn’t even originally meant to sing in the song, and he’s not a trained singer, he tried it out of his own accord and the result was great.

But yes I know from other threads you’re desperate to build this narrative that BG3 was a failure because any inclusive or diverse piece of media must be bad, because the issue is diversity and inclusion, not that many pieces of diverse media suck.

Plus you don’t even own the game, so how can you fairly give your thoughts?

[Brian_the_Brute]

The speech was right before and during the fight with him singing the song. I had music off on first play so didn't know, but found it epic 2nd time around when it started playing.

Rafael is Lawful Evil, so it's full of refined decor and looks orderly. It isn't chaotic and gore-filled like Yurgir's area in act 2. You do see the decayed spread of food though on the table showing you it was all an illusion.

Hope gives you a disguise so you can walk around, take it off if you want to fight every thing you see there on first sight.

Could it have been done better? Yes, but it's still a pretty good encounter.

It is really good compared to the Gortash fight, which is the really underwhelming one. You can tell they just repurposed Wyrm's rock for it rather than have it play out in the upper city as it originally should have been.

[TapewormJim (TJ)]

Originally posted by Slav Mcgopnik:

But yes I know from other threads you’re desperate to build this narrative that BG3 was a failure because any inclusive or diverse piece of media must be bad, because the issue is diversity and inclusion, not that many pieces of diverse media suck.

Will address this one first, only to say you're the one who brought it up, not me. So not taking the bait amigo.

Originally posted by Slav Mcgopnik:

Plus you don’t even own the game, so how can you fairly give your thoughts?

Many ways to own the game without the mouse beside your name.

Originally posted by Slav Mcgopnik:

Raph’s VA wasn’t even originally meant to sing in the song, and he’s not a trained singer, he tried it out of his own accord and the result was great.

'Raph', huh?

They even give him 'nicknames'.

See he's 'something special'.

Simply put, I'm entitled to believe none of this praise is dished out on the merits of the writing.

What are some great quotes? Where do you feel the character displays even wit or originality?

Examples.

I added a quote. You didn't explain why you thought something like that was 'great'. But you did confirm it's cheesy, which isn't generally something anyone equates with 'great', unless its intelligently tied to some comic relief 'throwaway' creation.

But this guy was clearly meant to be scene as smart, calculating and sophisticated - yet is as subtle as a mallet to the head.

The florid dialogue is beyond all imagining. It is precisely excruciating to read/listen to - you cannot take the idiot seriously. You just become evermore cynical and jaded the more cack-handed he gets. Because you know he's an idiot, and fools are not threats.

The whole game is like this with the villains. They're either dumb (Raphael), mental (Orin), bland (Gortash) or derivative (Kentaric).

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

Nor sure OP, I lost all interest in the game at the start of chapter 3

[Traveler]

Originally posted by nilus:

You didn’t like Raphael singing his own theme music?

Well, that was kind of nice.

[⎛⎝ Kupo ⎠⎞]

Originally posted by nilus:

You didn’t like Raphael singing his own theme music?

It's great but then it just stops lol.
It's pretty short too it barely lasts any of the fight, and it screws the audio levels of the combat altho it's a cool idea and the song is good it's pretty bizarre at the same time.

[backpack mushroom]

I didn't take down the pillars when I fought him. It made the fight more difficult, but that's what I needed because I was playing with party-limit begone. So, no you don't have to take down the pillars to beat him, it just makes for a more difficult encounter.

[shi-foo ODIO LA LPF]

Originally posted by ⎛⎝ Kupo ⎠⎞:

Originally posted by nilus:

You didn’t like Raphael singing his own theme music?

It's great but then it just stops lol.
It's pretty short too it barely lasts any of the fight, and it screws the audio levels of the combat altho it's a cool idea and the song is good it's pretty bizarre at the same time.

There was something that happened to me and that is that when Raphael's song played, it hit so hard since it is a contrast of song that was not seen in the entire game. That's why it was quite impactful, that choir and type of orchestra was the first and last time there was one in the game. It was a 360 turn of all the songs in the fights

[Brian_the_Brute]

Originally posted by .Shiifuu:

Originally posted by Brian_the_Brute:

The speech was right before and during the fight with him singing the song. I had music off on first play so didn't know, but found it epic 2nd time around when it started playing.

Rafael is Lawful Evil, so it's full of refined decor and looks orderly. It isn't chaotic and gore-filled like Yurgir's area in act 2. You do see the decayed spread of food though on the table showing you it was all an illusion.

Hope gives you a disguise so you can walk around, take it off if you want to fight every thing you see there on first sight.

Could it have been done better? Yes, but it's still a pretty good encounter.

It is really good compared to the Gortash fight, which is the really underwhelming one. You can tell they just repurposed Wyrm's rock for it rather than have it play out in the upper city as it originally should have been.

Trying to lower the level of Raphael's fight to say that it is good only by comparing it with Gortash I don't consider it fair xD, Gortash's fight lacks epicness, and it also happens because you can start it whenever you want, there is no truly "epic" encounter like Oran's, nothing is prepared to make it very good. On the other hand, Raphael's is being cooked from act 1.
Although it is impossible to speak objectively about a fight or anything in itself, since it is enough to say that someone likes Gortash's fight more than another for my objectivity to lose meaning. I really think there is no person who likes the Gortash fight more than Raphael.

True, being better than pure trash doesn't mean the fight wasn't underwhelming in some regards. Rafael could have at least cheated more like Kethric did. There also could have been some mechanics to disable some the cheese methods to beat him and some environmental difficulties used against you.

[Traveler]

The portal room has so much promise. It almost looks like it was made for full blown expansions (which would sell like hotcakes).

Since the studio seems to have no interest in the revenue stream hopefully there will be tools for the mod community to build those destinations.

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by .Shiifuu:

You don't see it as a masterpiece because you didn't like it and I feel like you're throwing too much ♥♥♥♥ at it.

You don’t appear to have qualified how the poster ‘threw too much ♥♥♥♥ at it’ - can you expand on your rationale for assuming as much? The points struck me as valid, backed up by evidence. The lyrics of the song are indeed naff, cringe-inducing and hackneyed to the point of unintentional comedy. Certainly the writer appears to be an idiot.

Originally posted by .Shiifuu:

I am a truly objective person, and I am not afraid to say that it is a masterpiece.

That’s a contradiction of terms, since your claim it’s a ‘masterpiece’, without any quotes or references to back it up, is unfortunately, by definition, a subjective statement. Cordially I invite you to expand on your philosophy as to why such apparently naff, crude and, frankly, silly material would deserve such high praise.

Originally posted by .Shiifuu:

And you are a person who wants to destroy what others are enjoying, I have no doubt.

That’s quite an antagonistic comment, both subjective and, again, unqualified by supporting material.

Originally posted by .Shiifuu:

Level 0 private profile, desire to troll tbh.

Calling someone a ‘troll’ is an insult and bait, which is against Steam rules - I wonder why you are allowed to state as much while this other individual is banned?

Originally posted by .Shiifuu:

You are also getting confused, the only ♥♥♥♥ here that is insulting and bringing bad vibes is you

Here you've directly referred to the poster as a ♥♥♥♥ (the slur can be seen by quoting this guy's reply), which is in direct violation of Steam rules. Again, I question why one person here is banned and one is not.

Originally posted by .Shiifuu:

the only crazy person in the post right now is you LOL

You now call the poster 'crazy'?

This is quite astonishing for me to read - multiple insults slung in succession, yet no repercussions.

I'd like to clarify that I 100% endorse the opinions of the poster who was banned. Simply, the writing is cringeworthy, the character is laughably incompetent, and others have even confirmed the yawning cheesiness of the delivery here.

There is nothing ban-worthy about calling a fictional creation moronic and contemptible. The same cannot be said of those who call others '♥♥♥♥♥' and 'crazy', with the hatred itself allowed to remain openly declared by Steam mods.