Dark Urge and the Slayer

[Bruhman800]

I usually play evil Dark Urge cause it's more fun to play that way IMO. But the Slayer Form just isn't that good. I don't really understand why Orin's is so much better. It's like that meme of when the hard boss becomes a playable character and gets nerfed into the ground. Piercing Growl is really the only good skill on the Slayer and i don't get why we can't get some of the skills Orin has on it. (Like Sanguine Animation which turns nearby blood into skeletons that fight for you, Or even Boon of Bhaal/Murder Hungry that gives you a stack of Unstoppable every time you kill a enemy, which works really well with Durge from a roleplay prospective, especially since all of Bhaals cultist already have that skill unlocked automatically) I Dunno, I feel like these skills would make the Slayer actually worth killing Last Light and locking you out of a significant amount of content, Not to mention none of these skills are particularly game breaking so I don't see balance being a problem. Don't even get me started on how Orin's slayer has LARGLY better stats. and apparently most of the Slayers skills are based on Charisma. Which is why Piercing Growl is the only good skill since the Slayer locks your charisma to 8.

[[TG] zac]

Slayer form also sucks if your playing a warlock, sorcerer, bard or paladin sadly.

While in the form your charisma takes a nose dive which effects a number of DC's for the classes listed.

[Bruhman800]

Originally posted by TG zac:

Slayer form also sucks if your playing a warlock, sorcerer, bard or paladin sadly.

While in the form your charisma takes a nose dive which effects a number of DC's for the classes listed.

It's sad that it sucks so bad, The only use i get out of it is flexing it on Orin and spamming Piercing Growl on her for the memes. Especially since if Orin's version of the slayer was usable it would be so much more useful. Hopefully someone mods it into the game.

[DeMasked]

Eh one could say that story wise the parasite makes the Slayer form rather lousy, but gameplay wise it's because the form is an entire hp bar for free so it can't be that good.

[Bruhman800]

Originally posted by DeMasked:

Eh one could say that story wise the parasite makes the Slayer form rather lousy, but gameplay wise it's because the form is an entire hp bar for free so it can't be that good.

The Druid wild shapes are a free HP bar AND you can use them Multiple times a day and they're 10x better than the Slayer. ESPICALLY the Myrmidons. I remember on my first playthrough i infinitely stunned Orin with the air Myrmidon wildshape.

[Shady Knights]

Relentless Lunge is useful for breaking down Sturdy locked doors. It also glitches you through them if they don't break.

[DeMasked]

Originally posted by Bruhman800:

Originally posted by DeMasked:

Eh one could say that story wise the parasite makes the Slayer form rather lousy, but gameplay wise it's because the form is an entire hp bar for free so it can't be that good.

The Druid wild shapes are a free HP bar AND you can use them Multiple times a day and they're 10x better than the Slayer. ESPICALLY the Myrmidons. I remember on my first playthrough i infinitely stunned Orin with the air Myrmidon wildshape.

Druid you have to invest levels into for those later forms whereas Slayer form is given by playing the story.

However looking at the BG3 Wiki I think the best way to utilise Slayer form would involve going Barbarian for Rage and then Berserker for the Frenzy or Bearheart for the extra resistance + a dip into War Cleric for those 3 bonus action attacks which all apparently works for the Slayer. Rogue Thief would give you that extra bonus action for the Relentless Lunge.

Tavern Brawler apparently increases your attack roll but not the damage roll so that is partially good - more so if going the Berserker Throwing Build with Thief / War Cleric.

Honestly I see the Durge being more of a Berserker type of character who rips and tears into enemies with wild abandon. Rogue Thief adds to the sneakiness of Durge being in a cult + give more Intimidation which Barbarian you'd choose as well. Cleric War Priest gives you Bhaal as a Deity and obviously Guidance to help with those Charisma checks.

I might have another go at a Durge run on Tactician or Honour Mode as the last one I lost interest at the Emerald Grove where I kinda just wanted to do a "good" run.

Probably would go 4 Rogue, 1 into Cleric and then 7 into Barbarian which gives you a lesser version of Alert freeing up the choice for a different Feat if going Honour Mode.

edit: One other thing is that Slayer doesn't get Druid Shapeshifting bonus of ignoring resistances with attacks. So you'd be doing less damage against those who are resistance to Pierce, Slash, Bludgeoning unless perhaps certain items could circumvent that.

Also having synergy with Bleeding somehow would make the Slayer a lot better in fights. So perhaps Slayer isn't that bad but needs to be built around using that form.

[Bruhman800]

Originally posted by DeMasked:

Originally posted by Bruhman800:

The Druid wild shapes are a free HP bar AND you can use them Multiple times a day and they're 10x better than the Slayer. ESPICALLY the Myrmidons. I remember on my first playthrough i infinitely stunned Orin with the air Myrmidon wildshape.

Druid you have to invest levels into for those later forms whereas Slayer form is given by playing the story.

However looking at the BG3 Wiki I think the best way to utilise Slayer form would involve going Barbarian for Rage and then Berserker for the Frenzy or Bearheart for the extra resistance + a dip into War Cleric for those 3 bonus action attacks which all apparently works for the Slayer. Rogue Thief would give you that extra bonus action for the Relentless Lunge.

Tavern Brawler apparently increases your attack roll but not the damage roll so that is partially good - more so if going the Berserker Throwing Build with Thief / War Cleric.

Honestly I see the Durge being more of a Berserker type of character who rips and tears into enemies with wild abandon. Rogue Thief adds to the sneakiness of Durge being in a cult + give more Intimidation which Barbarian you'd choose as well. Cleric War Priest gives you Bhaal as a Deity and obviously Guidance to help with those Charisma checks.

I might have another go at a Durge run on Tactician or Honour Mode as the last one I lost interest at the Emerald Grove where I kinda just wanted to do a "good" run.

Probably would go 4 Rogue, 1 into Cleric and then 7 into Barbarian which gives you a lesser version of Alert freeing up the choice for a different Feat if going Honour Mode.

edit: One other thing is that Slayer doesn't get Druid Shapeshifting bonus of ignoring resistances with attacks. So you'd be doing less damage against those who are resistance to Pierce, Slash, Bludgeoning unless perhaps certain items could circumvent that.

Also having synergy with Bleeding somehow would make the Slayer a lot better in fights. So perhaps Slayer isn't that bad but needs to be built around using that form.

I was just bringing up Druids because he said it's a free HP bar so it can't be good. Druids get mulitple free HP bars a day and even the lower level Wildshapes are better than the Slayer. Your build does sound nice but the main problem with the Slayer is the Skills. All of them besides piercing growl are based off of charisma. Larian decided to have the game treat all of the skills like charisma spells. Since turning into Slayer reduces your charisma score to 8 for some god awful reason.(Orin's Slayer is 11x better and the skills would actually be useful with her Slayer stats) The skills just become comically bad. Also i agree with your assessment of the Durge. I have NO idea why Larian made Durge a Sorcerer. Makes zero sense lore wise. not to mention is laughably low default strength. I think his base class should be a Paladin(Was probably planned at some point since there's art of him wearing Oath of Vengeance armor), A barbarian since they're tanky and have a lot of intimidation dialogue about eating people and killing them with your bare hands. Or a rouge for obvious reasons. Don't know why a psychopath who's capable of murdering armies with their bare hands is using magic instead of being a Barbarian or something.

[DeMasked]

Originally posted by Bruhman800:

All of them besides piercing growl are based off of charisma.

Ah... yea that sounds like a rather large oversight... Maybe the idea is that the Durge needs to be convincing with Charisma but when his monster form comes out everyone is grossed out which is why it has trash innate Charisma.

I suppose you can't really optimise for it well unless the skill checks are based on a primary stat in which case for many people that would be Charisma. I wouldn't know as I've barely touched Durge. Someone in our MP group is one for an Honour Mode run and it was always a bit of a meme for him to bring out his jimmy jammers and fail. 1v1 vs Orin was a complete fail.

[Emilia Tempest]

Originally posted by DeMasked:

Eh one could say that story wise the parasite makes the Slayer form rather lousy, but gameplay wise it's because the form is an entire hp bar for free so it can't be that good.

It can only be used once per long rest
Unlike druid forms, you cannot speak in the slayer form whatsoever so if your character is required in any way to make conversations, you simply cant do it and have to manually dismiss the slayerform (and you wont recharge it until you take a long rest)
So it more often than not is just for a single fight and gone till you long rest, nomatter if you lost the form in combat or not

[Bruhman800]

Originally posted by DeMasked:

Originally posted by Bruhman800:

All of them besides piercing growl are based off of charisma.

Ah... yea that sounds like a rather large oversight... Maybe the idea is that the Durge needs to be convincing with Charisma but when his monster form comes out everyone is grossed out which is why it has trash innate Charisma.

I suppose you can't really optimise for it well unless the skill checks are based on a primary stat in which case for many people that would be Charisma. I wouldn't know as I've barely touched Durge. Someone in our MP group is one for an Honour Mode run and it was always a bit of a meme for him to bring out his jimmy jammers and fail. 1v1 vs Orin was a complete fail.

Yup. "The Difficulty Class (DC) of the Slayer's Relentless Lunge, Sumptuous Blood Bath, and
Let the Slaughter Begin is based on its 8 Charisma. This makes it incredibly hard to successfully use their effects. "According to the Wiki at least. Which is insane cause in comparison Orin's Slayer has 19 Charisma and better skills. At least it's fun to cheese Orin in the 1v1 with Piercing Growl. That's all i use it for tbh.

[Bruhman800]

If anyone else has a problem with this i found a mod that fixes most of these complaints: https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/9796?tab=files