Clerics are overrated

[Jonny Boy]

Im 800 hours in BG3 i know the game well.

I know this may seem odd to some but i think clerics are probably a B-Tier class (not A or S Tier) like some have said for these reasons:

- Wizards and Sorcerers are both better battlefield controllers and Damage dealers.

- Clerics are a very front loaded class with nearly all of there best spells being from levels
1-3 including spells Bless, Aid, Spiritual Weapon, Warding Bond and Spirit Guardians. After this they dont really get much that Wizards and Sorcerers can do better. There level 4-6 spells are just not required and are very underwhelming.

- Clerics are typically built with armour and weapons that do not increase there spell save DC unlike wizards and sorcerers eg plate armour and maces vs Robes and quarterstaffs. This in turn makes there damage and control spells not effective especially on tactition and honour mode where the AI has a +2 to there spells save.

- Paladins get access to Bless and Aid that leaves only spirit guardians and Warding bond as the only 2 good unique cleric spells you get from playing a pure cleric.

- Healing is nerfed hard in D&D 5th ed and only heals minor amounts and is gernerally considered a waste of a spell slot.

- Where a Cleric could be usefull is by using both lessor and greater restoration but in BG2 the AI simply almost never inflicts you with the conditions that the restoration spells would remove. This is a big change from BG 1 and BG2 where the restoration spells where a massive help.

- I feel as though the Cleric is overly reliable on the radiant orb stacking items and the gloves and ring you get early in Act one that grant you the 2 turn bless and blade ward on all healing spells cast. Without these items clerics would be massively nerfed.

[RoboSauce]

In BG3 they very well may be overrated, as any character can throw a healing potion at an ally to heal them, and anyone can cast from scrolls, so in that regard BG3 removes any benefits from specialization. Add to that the ability to long rest whenever yes clerics are a bit pointless in BG3. In a more RAW setting clerics are really nice to have around for the ranged healing alone- other classes can heal as well but clerics have more and better options. Plus guiding bolt and inflict wounds can be pretty great, especially if the cleric has advantage or bonuses to attack.

[attiladafun]

Agree. Clerics are only really useful early game and to fight undead.

[Morvana]

I think their usefulness depend of their subclass, which can make them very strong for some combos.

But in a majority of cases they suffer to be able to do anything, but not that well. It's the same problem with "mage" druids or magic bards, which have at least of few others tricks.

[LordOfTheBread]

Or you don't know hopw to use them.

[I Denizen I]

This is a direct result of the non stop whingeing about the holy trinity and the attempts to remove that dependency from these types of games.

"We don't want to need a cleric!"
"I'm bored playing a cleric, all I can do is heal."

The problem is, when you have Fighters, Rogues, Rangers, Bards Wizards & Sorcerers, what is actually left for the Clerics and Druids as a definitive role?

I was massively underwhelmed with both healers and spell casters in DnD5e (I've been playing since the 80's) and I can honestly say I detest 5e, watered down, over nerfed, boring.
And unfortunately Larian did not do much to correct it.

(And lets not get bogged down here -- again -- telling me how amazing wizards and casters are, it's my opinion, you aren't going to convince me otherwise, so lets not derail the topic.)

I mean my cleric was effectively a utility buff bot with some weak offensive capabilities and truly lack lustre healing potential, the vast majority of the time healing potions and scrolls are more than good enough.

They should have left the holy trinity alone, lets face it, nothing else is better, nothing else is less irritating, and potential solutions are just as tedious to deal with.

If it ain't broke, don't try fixing it, which is a lesson I wish I could stamp into the wall of every office at the HQ of the creators of the abomination which is DnD 5e.

[Detective Costeau]

Nothing stops you giving a cleric most of the spell DC increasing gear. Clerics can use staves just like a wizard can, for instance. All you need is simple weapon proficiency. Almost none of the Spell DC increasing gear is class-specific. Lots of it is weapons, gauntlets, amulets and so on which anyone can use.
Just because you have armor proficiency doesn't mean you can't wear a robe if you want to trade AC for a better spell DC.
I don't really find much trouble finding good spells at higher level either- if you don't find uses for spells like Destructive Wave, Insect Plague, Flame Strike, heroes Feast and Planar Ally, you're not trying very hard, they're all very good.
The only major issue I have with them is the different domains aren't super balanced- Light and Tempest in particular are very good, Trickery is just very bad, and so on. (I honestly suspect Shadowheart having Trickery by default might leave a lot of people feeling like clerics are much worse than they actually are, I always respec her to an actually useful domain)
But they're great if you pick the right domain, a properly-built Light cleric can actually compete with a wizard in damage output. A tempest cleric in the same party as a Storm Sorcerer is so powerful it feels like downright cheating.

[Morvana]

Originally posted by I Denizen I:

They should have left the holy trinity alone, lets face it, nothing else is better, nothing else is less irritating, and potential solutions are just as tedious to deal with.

Hell no. The "trinity" is only uselful in MMO to force players to cooperate, and even then it causes problems.

Cleric should have evolved to have more things to do outside of healing, that's the problem.

[seeker1]

Their best spells are in levels 1-3? Harm, Planar Ally, Divine Intervention/Sunder the Heretical (OK technically not a spell), and Destructive Wave say hello. (Notice I didn't mention healing or buffing spells.)

[♂Warrior of Gachi♂]

Clerics would be useful in a game with good balancing. But in BG3, most of their utility is useless, healing is done better with potions, damage is done better by other classes.

[Popsicles]

Completely disagree.

Here we go again, another min/max person that only thinks of power in terms of damage output. Clerics are one of the most versatile classes. You can use them for damage, tanking or healing.

If you can't find uses for levels 4-6 cleric spells, then you do not know how to use a cleric. Or you spend too much time on YouTube watching build guides.

Paladins are half casters that do not have many spell slots. If you start burning their slots with buff spells, then what happens to your precious dmg output?

Harm, Heal, Mass cure wounds, Flame Strike, Insect Plague... many great high level Cleric spells.

Heroes Feast is the most powerful spell in the game. Change my mind.

Not to mention, Clerics can get access to wizard spells through sub class.

I can't count the number of times Healing Word has saved my ass. Sure healing is nerfed due to the massive amounts of potions, but healing someone from across the room as a bonus action is incredibly valuable during combat.

Funny thing, never used radiant orb once in 1000 hours of gameplay. You must be watching min/max videos and forming all your opinions from those.

[Kameh]

OP actually casts bless directly and wants to be taken seriously?

[Jonny Boy]

Originally posted by I Denizen I:

This is a direct result of the non stop whingeing about the holy trinity and the attempts to remove that dependency from these types of games.

"We don't want to need a cleric!"
"I'm bored playing a cleric, all I can do is heal."

The problem is, when you have Fighters, Rogues, Rangers, Bards Wizards & Sorcerers, what is actually left for the Clerics and Druids as a definitive role?

I was massively underwhelmed with both healers and spell casters in DnD5e (I've been playing since the 80's) and I can honestly say I detest 5e, watered down, over nerfed, boring.
And unfortunately Larian did not do much to correct it.

(And lets not get bogged down here -- again -- telling me how amazing wizards and casters are, it's my opinion, you aren't going to convince me otherwise, so lets not derail the topic.)

I mean my cleric was effectively a utility buff bot with some weak offensive capabilities and truly lack lustre healing potential, the vast majority of the time healing potions and scrolls are more than good enough.

They should have left the holy trinity alone, lets face it, nothing else is better, nothing else is less irritating, and potential solutions are just as tedious to deal with.

If it ain't broke, don't try fixing it, which is a lesson I wish I could stamp into the wall of every office at the HQ of the creators of the abomination which is DnD 5e.

Yeah 100%. Only thing i disagree with you on is that Sorcerers are amazing and OP die to metamagic. I dont use sorcerers in my playthroughs because it makes the game to easy.

[harlequin_corps]

Wow.. I guess you totally missed the Light Cleric PBAOE build. Fireball, Flamestrike, Spirit Guardians, Scorching Ray, Radiance of the Dawn, Guardian of Faith, Spiritual Weapon. The only real healing a cleric should do is Aid to bring up downed who have Bone Chill. I mean seriously. Light Clerics are DAOC SM's, all they need is a perma pet. Guardian of Faith and Spiritual Weapon don't take concentration so you can even put 3 pets down if you include Flaming Sphere. Especially since Wisdom is their spell damage ability.
Seriously, try a Light Cleric but only focus on damage dealing, leave the healing for potions and whatnot.
Also, if you are concerned about Bless in BG3, try to find the Staff of Arcane Blessing. It's really kind of meta broken. If you equip it, then cast Bless normal spell, Lvl 2 on all 4 party members for example, it applies Mystra's Blessing STACKED on the normal Bless. But Mystra's Blessing doesn't require concentration. So you get to have your Bless and an extra 1D4 to Spell Attack that doesn't require concentration.

[I Denizen I]

Originally posted by harlequin_corps:

Wow.. I guess you totally missed the Light Cleric PBAOE build. Fireball, Flamestrike, Spirit Guardians, Scorching Ray, Radiance of the Dawn, Guardian of Faith, Spiritual Weapon. The only real healing a cleric should do is Aid to bring up downed who have Bone Chill. I mean seriously. Light Clerics are DAOC SM's, all they need is a perma pet. Guardian of Faith and Spiritual Weapon don't take concentration so you can even put 3 pets down if you include Flaming Sphere. Especially since Wisdom is their spell damage ability.
Seriously, try a Light Cleric but only focus on damage dealing, leave the healing for potions and whatnot.
Also, if you are concerned about Bless in BG3, try to find the Staff of Arcane Blessing. It's really kind of meta broken. If you equip it, then cast Bless normal spell, Lvl 2 on all 4 party members for example, it applies Mystra's Blessing STACKED on the normal Bless. But Mystra's Blessing doesn't require concentration. So you get to have your Bless and an extra 1D4 to Spell Attack that doesn't require concentration.

Or just take a Sorcerer?
Or a Wizard?
Or a Paladin?
Or a Ranger?

Happy you made a gimpy damage dealing cleric though.

[Estevan Valladares]

Clerics are the class you are if you know how to play enough to get a class that you can develop into anything.
People who cant really dig complexity doesnt dig clerics.

It is not a zoomer class.