College of Swords & Pact of Blade - New Player Help

[Mist of Majora]

So I think I want to do something like this and combine a fighting utility bard that uses Charisma as his attack modifier (assuming I got that right?).

This is basically going to be my first game, and I'm not sure of the rest of my team setup yet, so can some kind souls give me some newbie advice as to when to switch between lvl 3 Warlock and Bard (or whether starting with one or the other is better), whether going dual swords or sword & shield is better with this setup, and what kind of stats to be focused on (if Charisma is my attack modifier, I'm guessing I want to keep that relatively high).

Thanks, and sorry if I'm asking some dumb questions!

[Detective Costeau]

Those are all perfectly reasonable questions.
I'd start with the 3 levels in Warlock first and then put the last 9 into bard- you need level 3 and the blade pact to use Cha on your weapon attacks. Also that'll get you Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast, which will give you very solid ranged damage all game. Combined with Pact of the Blade at level 3, you'll have solid ranged and melee atttacks.
You'll want CHA as high as you can get it (16 or 17) to start- the only other stats that you actually need after that are some Dex for AC and some Con for hp.
Also, fun fact: warlocks are automatically proficient with bound weapons, so you have some options that aren't immediately obvious in addition to dual wielding or sword and shield- you can bind a greatsword and use it just fine for melee damage if you want to.

[Mist of Majora]

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

Those are all perfectly reasonable questions.
I'd start with the 3 levels in Warlock first and then put the last 9 into bard- you need level 3 and the blade pact to use Cha on your weapon attacks. Also that'll get you Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast, which will give you very solid ranged damage all game. Combined with Pact of the Blade at level 3, you'll have solid ranged and melee atttacks.
You'll want CHA as high as you can get it (16 or 17) to start- the only other stats that you actually need after that are some Dex for AC and some Con for hp.
Also, fun fact: warlocks are automatically proficient with bound weapons, so you have some options that aren't immediately obvious in addition to dual wielding or sword and shield- you can bind a greatsword and use it just fine for melee damage if you want to.

Thank you so much for responding!

I'm torn between a swashbuckler type char (dual swords) or an off tank - is there anything i should shy away from with this build?

And what should my stats look later in the game (what stats should be I be focused on as I level more than an exact number late game)? I didn't think about Dex for AC, so should I be scaling that if I want to make an off-tank? And then if I'm doing that, am I spreading my stats too thin haha.

So much to think about, I'm loving this game before I've even started lol

[PK_Ultra]

Youre going to die if you use this build.

I get the idea of going Warlock 3 so u can use CHA as your main spell and attack stat, but what you end up with is a very mediocre bard/warlock in the end that cant do either classes right.

Either go pure Sword Bard and Max out Dex first then Cha if you want that "swordmage" playstyle. But be warned, sword bards dont do damage. They're very gimmicky. You'll want to use a rapier and no shield.

Or be a Bard 1/Blade Warlock X, which is the stronger option. Aim for 20 Cha/14 Dex. Get the Warlock's passive Mage Armor invocation and Agonizing blast. Grab a shield.

At this point you're basically a mage that can survive in close combat, without sacrificing damage for gimmicks like Valor bard does. the downside is, you're basically a mage. You'll be casting eldritch blast for most of your damage and wont be using your melee weapon, which from your post, is what youre going for.

anyways hope that helps. Pure sword bard for the "swordmage/swashbuckler" feel and gimmick. Or Bard1/Warlock X if you want a mage on the frontlines.

[Detective Costeau]

I can't think of anything to avoid other than obvious stuff like 'don't waste points on Strength'.
If you want to do a tankier version of the build, you could consider playing either a Githyanki or Shield Dwarf for the extra armor proficiency, or a human/half elf for shield proficiency (dueling combat style works with shields if you didn't know).
As for where you want to put stats- get your Charisma to 20 as soon as possible as you use it for basically everything with a build like this. I can't think of any specific feats you might want instead of increasing your ability scores, but I'm sure someone else can suggest some.

Also, as a more general tip- if you're going to be playing on Balanced difficulty, don't stress too much about getting the build exactly right. If you just go with what seems cool and effective, you'll be fine, and it's pretty cheap to re-spec your character if you do make a mistake anyhow.

[alanc9]

Originally posted by PK_Ultra:

Youre going to die if you use this build.

I get the idea of going Warlock 3 so u can use CHA as your main spell and attack stat, but what you end up with is a very mediocre bard/warlock in the end that cant do either classes right.

Either go pure Valor Bard and Max out Dex first then Cha if you want that "swordmage" playstyle. But be warned, Valor bards dont do damage. They're very gimmicky.

So why not Swords Bard? DEX 20+ with one of the full-DEX medium armors is pretty durable. Decent casting too, which turns awesome with a particular couple of items.

[PK_Ultra]

Originally posted by alanc9:

Originally posted by PK_Ultra:

Youre going to die if you use this build.

I get the idea of going Warlock 3 so u can use CHA as your main spell and attack stat, but what you end up with is a very mediocre bard/warlock in the end that cant do either classes right.

Either go pure Valor Bard and Max out Dex first then Cha if you want that "swordmage" playstyle. But be warned, Valor bards dont do damage. They're very gimmicky.

So why not Swords Bard? DEX 20+ with one of the full-DEX medium armors is pretty durable. Decent casting too, which turns awesome with a particular couple of items.

Whoops my mistake. i meant the sword bard. Dex 20 with full light armor.

OP feel free to ask for clarification if any of this is confusing. Hope i helped.

[Mist of Majora]

Originally posted by PK_Ultra:

Originally posted by alanc9:

So why not Swords Bard? DEX 20+ with one of the full-DEX medium armors is pretty durable. Decent casting too, which turns awesome with a particular couple of items.

Whoops my mistake. i meant the sword bard. Dex 20 with full light armor.

OP feel free to ask for clarification if any of this is confusing. Hope i helped.

Haha since I've barely seen half of act I so far, everything is confusing, so feel free to clarify anything you can in relation to this :)

And I definitely was wondering whether pumping Cha and Dex as I went, plus some HP, might be a bit much to keep up with.

I'd love to add some utility to help my team, so assuming I went the Dex Bard route, what stats do i pump for more spell/skill slot/uses, and tankiness/dmg?

Even if I don't end up going this route, I'd love to know the thinking and builds in doing so, which shoudl help me planning as new equipment presents itself!

Thanks again to everyone :)

[RollerPig]

Originally posted by Mist of Majora:

Originally posted by PK_Ultra:

Whoops my mistake. i meant the sword bard. Dex 20 with full light armor.

OP feel free to ask for clarification if any of this is confusing. Hope i helped.

Haha since I've barely seen half of act I so far, everything is confusing, so feel free to clarify anything you can in relation to this :)

And I definitely was wondering whether pumping Cha and Dex as I went, plus some HP, might be a bit much to keep up with.

I'd love to add some utility to help my team, so assuming I went the Dex Bard route, what stats do i pump for more spell/skill slot/uses, and tankiness/dmg?

Even if I don't end up going this route, I'd love to know the thinking and builds in doing so, which shoudl help me planning as new equipment presents itself!

Thanks again to everyone :)

Theres some really important factors here some are missing.

1.First a pure class whether bard or warlock will beat any mult iclass with like 2 exceptions in power until level 7-8 minimum. lockadin or fighter/warlock (these are traditional multi class lock builds) don't really start hammering until level 10

2. In order to get your second attack with weapon bond (warlock) you need level 5 or level 6 for bard. This is a HUGE dps spike you cannot do without it

Bards by themselves (even swords bards) make decent hybrid mellee/casters but mellee will always be superior in damage.

A better caster mellee hybrid would be as I said warlock 5, paldin 7, or 6/6 depending on your spell preference

OR warlock 5 with devils sight and either battle master fighter or champion fighter. You could go eldritch knight but all you'll really get is the sheild and some utility spells like jump or disguse self as your intellect will be to low to do any damage and eldritch knight unfortunately sucks with spell levels (max level 3 spells at character level 12)

on tactician and below, level 5 pact of the blade extra attack stacks with the extra attack marshal classes also get at level 5. So you'll get 3 attacks per round at level 10

The strength of the warlock multi class is that charisma is used as youre dmg modifier so you become single attribute dependent and can dump strength in favor of CON or DEX and still land spells with the same modifier

I found the warlock fighter build fun as ♥♥♥♥. You open casting darkness and you fight using it as often as possible

[jonnin]

if no one said it, you only get ONE pact weapon so dual wielding seems off-putting to me as a warlock. If you DW your non pact weapon relies on str or dex to hit and damage which means buffing those up to 20+ which is diffiucult to do.

You typically swap at level 5 when the warlock gets its second attack, but you may want more levels for specific spells (?). HOH can clear a room of baddies for example..

after you max out CHA you want dex to make your armor class a little better and then you can do whatever... even them out to all 12 or focus on like one or two things for the skills you picked. Your skills should at least include 1 of the talking ones, if not several. If you missed it, bard grants an extra short rest so more spell uses for the warlock, so you want at least a couple of 3rd level spells, if not 4th, which means a 6/6 split may be better than 5/7 ... look at the bard school and see where a good 'got what I wanted from this class' break is

[alanc9]

Originally posted by RollerPig:

Bards by themselves (even swords bards) make decent hybrid mellee/casters but mellee will always be superior in damage.

Don't you mean especially swords bards? Flourishes strike me as being pretty close to broken.

[alanc9]

Originally posted by jonnin:

if no one said it, you only get ONE pact weapon so dual wielding seems off-putting to me as a warlock. If you DW your non pact weapon relies on str or dex to hit and damage which means buffing those up to 20+ which is diffiucult to do.

Yeah, I'd definitely go shield in the off hand.

[RollerPig]

Originally posted by alanc9:

Originally posted by RollerPig:

Bards by themselves (even swords bards) make decent hybrid mellee/casters but mellee will always be superior in damage.

Don't you mean especially swords bards? Flourishes strike me as being pretty close to broken.

depends on how min max(y) you want to play

I have several hundred hours in the game..lmao so to answer your question..No, swords bard are not even close the the strongest mellee class.

They ARE the strongest ranged class when paired with rogue though because there ranged flourish just attacks twice. No conditions (like they need to be almost standing on top of each other), just 2 attacks. period.

Take 2 weapon fighting in fighting style and archery in fighter and theif in rogue.Dual weild hand crossbows with sharpshooter feat

The damage is beyond broken. I think its 12 attacks first round with mind sanctuary or haste from another source

Nothing can beat a Paladin level 4 smites, lockadin triple attack smite or a fighters triple attacks with sword of baulderan in terms of mellee damage

pure bard is damage/support imho and VERY good at that

[[TG] zac]

Originally posted by Mist of Majora:

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

Those are all perfectly reasonable questions.
I'd start with the 3 levels in Warlock first and then put the last 9 into bard- you need level 3 and the blade pact to use Cha on your weapon attacks. Also that'll get you Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast, which will give you very solid ranged damage all game. Combined with Pact of the Blade at level 3, you'll have solid ranged and melee atttacks.
You'll want CHA as high as you can get it (16 or 17) to start- the only other stats that you actually need after that are some Dex for AC and some Con for hp.
Also, fun fact: warlocks are automatically proficient with bound weapons, so you have some options that aren't immediately obvious in addition to dual wielding or sword and shield- you can bind a greatsword and use it just fine for melee damage if you want to.

Thank you so much for responding!

I'm torn between a swashbuckler type char (dual swords) or an off tank - is there anything i should shy away from with this build?

And what should my stats look later in the game (what stats should be I be focused on as I level more than an exact number late game)? I didn't think about Dex for AC, so should I be scaling that if I want to make an off-tank? And then if I'm doing that, am I spreading my stats too thin haha.

So much to think about, I'm loving this game before I've even started lol

Pact of the blade only works with one weapon so it won't work with duel wielding.

You want to either grab a 2 handed melee weapon or a 2 handed range weapon with it unless you plan on using a shield.