(Spoilers) Can we talk about how wild the last "in-canon decade" has been in 5e lore?

[PK_Ultra]

As you may or may not know, BG3 is part of the running canon of 5e's modules. From Tyranny of Dragons to Descent from Avernus,

BG3 is a straight up sequel to Descent to Avernus. It also sets up the canon ending of the campaign where Zariel is ultimately not saved.

In every frickin module, some demon or god is trying to bring about the end-times. From Tiamat, to Lolth, to Asmodeus. Canonically all these events happen all after each other. Imagine being a normie NPC in Faurun and living through at least 10 different end times.

I mention this because of how this all ties back to Karsus and the Netherise. It blew my mind that Gale was carrying the KARSUS MAGIC WEAVE when Karsus tried to replace Mystra as the new god of magic! That is Such a DEEP cut in the lore and Larian flexed on us by tying it all together.

If you arent familiar with the official canon modules, there are these obilisks in each campaign that your team may or may not find. If you find them and pass the correct skill checks, you find out that theyre netherise in design.

And if you play all the campaigns you figure out that they're MAGIC TIME MACHINES. There are Celestials trapped inside and if you release all of them, they turn time back to before the fall of Netheril.

Which ties into the new Vecna storyline, but I digress.

For Larian to suss that out, buried so deeply in the last 10 years of lore means they did some hardcore research and I wouldnt be surpised if Sven played all the modules as part of designing BG3's story.

As a fan of the TTRPG, I am deeply impressed by their mastery of the hidden lore and canon of the game and how they tied everything, and i mean EVERYTHING together in BG3.

The Netherbrain's crown being 1 of 3 of Karsus' items to become a GOD blew my mind. Even now, Karsus' huge eff up is reverberating through the setting some 2000 years later.

To anyone else who plays 5e, what impressed you about BG3?

And my final question to you is, what the heck is happening in Faerun? All of these demons and gods trying to trigger the apocalypse one after the other cant be a coincidence.

[jait]

Illithids now have sexual desires. They have souls. Nearly every character in your party is a Chosen... except the Vampire God. Sarevok and his kid and their kid...

How about Jergal and the Durge avoiding the Wall of the Faithless?

Game is a complete clownshow when it comes to Lore.


Edit: The Deva that's not a Deva is my personal favorite. FOR BEAUTY!

[PK_Ultra]

Originally posted by jait:

Illithids now have sexual desires. They have souls. Nearly every character in your party is a Chosen... except the Vampire God. Sarevok and his kid and their kid...

How about Jergal and the Durge avoiding the Wall of the Faithless?

Game is a complete clownshow when it comes to Lore.

yo thats huge! Youre right about the Illithid! Before this game, everyone thought their hosts died, but it turns out ceramorphosis also keeps and warps their soul! That has huge implications for the game's afterlife.

How do "good gods" judge a "good soul" turned into an illithid? Have they essentially had their souls stolen? The lore established that Illithid souls get absorbed by the elder brain they serve. So Emperor/Balduran's afterlife is the elder brain and whatever far realm it gets flung into once IT dies. If ever. Thats brutal!

I cant comment on Jergal or the dark urge playthrough but I see all of these new developments as a total win! What even is good in a world where people's moralities can be shaped by gods, demons and magic? What if one god created you to eat everybody like the Gnoll god? Or be a backstabber like the drow goddess? Is your soul just screwed? What does Heaven/Celestia even mean to a soul that was created and predisposed to be evil by an evil creator? Wouldnt it just be their version of hell/avernus for them?

[Actalo]

Frankly, I'm a little underwhelmed that in most RPGs, especially CRPGs, players are dealing with world-ending crap and players ascending to god-tier power or killing gods. It's nice sometimes when it's not "the fate of the world" at stake, when it's like "we got local problems, could use your help, but maybe work things out regardless" ... If you save the world in every game, it kinda cheapens the experience. Thankfully, BG3 has well written characters that encouraged emotional investment in seeing to their survival.

[brendan_in_china]

But how world-ending are these really? I mean, if Tyranny of Dragons played out with dragons ascendant, they would have taken over a part of the Sword Coast just in time to be stomped by Storm King's Thunder.

Real world analogy, we had Ottomans end Byzantine, yet somehow Christendom survived.

[Ghost]

Originally posted by jait:

Illithids now have sexual desires. They have souls. Nearly every character in your party is a Chosen... except the Vampire God. Sarevok and his kid and their kid...

How about Jergal and the Durge avoiding the Wall of the Faithless?

Game is a complete clownshow when it comes to Lore.


Edit: The Deva that's not a Deva is my personal favorite. FOR BEAUTY!

Illithids still don't have souls. Your interpretation may differ, but seemed pretty clear that any possible 'sexual desires' were just plain old manipulation.

Of the 11 in the party, counting player and companions only (12 if we separate custom Tav), there are up to 3. One is chosen (presumed, and only if you play them), one was chosen, one may become chosen. If you're not playing Durge, you've got 0 - 2.

And it's not like the god's are particularly exclusive - Mystra's got 20 something of them. Including Volo of all people, who personally I feel fits Tymora far more, and Chosen tend to get grouped up all the time.

Sarevok's familiy is definitely gross, but also fairly par for the course with Bhaal.

You seem to be misunderstanding the wall. Assuming our Durge still has a soul, Jergal can just pick them up. If they don't, Jergal doesn't need to pick them up.

By the Deva, I assume you mean Aylin. Who is not automatically a Deva just for having a divine parent. That's not how it works.
-----

Originally posted by Actalo:

Frankly, I'm a little underwhelmed that in most RPGs, especially CRPGs, players are dealing with world-ending crap and players ascending to god-tier power or killing gods. It's nice sometimes when it's not "the fate of the world" at stake, when it's like "we got local problems, could use your help, but maybe work things out regardless" ... If you save the world in every game, it kinda cheapens the experience. Thankfully, BG3 has well written characters that encouraged emotional investment in seeing to their survival.

Agreed, but that is pretty much the entire fantasy genre in general though. Some big-bad evil doing some big-bad things and others trying to stop them, and from an interactive point of view, being that person is a lot more interesting than being some random farmer or local adventurer who can't be bothered with it. And if it's not the actual world at stake it's gonna be the empire or the kingdom and it's end etc.

[Deathhappens]

"For Larian to suss that out, buried so deeply in the last 10 years of lore means they did some hardcore research and I wouldnt be surpised if Sven played all the modules as part of designing BG3's story."

I mean, it's also remotely possible they had insider information since, y'know, they were literally working with/for WotC...

Also, keep in mind that it's highly unusual for published modules to be considered canon, let alone contiguous to each the other. They could at any point declare any or all of them to be taking place at different times, alternate timelines, that sort of thing. Don't take the idea that this is all part of a bigger 'D&D' story buildup for granted.

[Deathhappens]

Originally posted by jait:

Illithids now have sexual desires. They have souls. Nearly every character in your party is a Chosen... except the Vampire God. Sarevok and his kid and their kid...

How about Jergal and the Durge avoiding the Wall of the Faithless?

Game is a complete clownshow when it comes to Lore.


Edit: The Deva that's not a Deva is my personal favorite. FOR BEAUTY!

Yeah, IDK what's going on with race templates for 5e but the description calling Aylin an Aasimar when she's the direct daughter of a goddess (and thereby half-Celestial) still gives me a headache.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Actalo:

Frankly, I'm a little underwhelmed that in most RPGs, especially CRPGs, players are dealing with world-ending crap and players ascending to god-tier power or killing gods. It's nice sometimes when it's not "the fate of the world" at stake, when it's like "we got local problems, could use your help, but maybe work things out regardless" ... If you save the world in every game, it kinda cheapens the experience. Thankfully, BG3 has well written characters that encouraged emotional investment in seeing to their survival.

This is one thing I really liked about most of Dragon Age 2. Having a more personal scale where you aren't the super special chosen one to save the world is always nice

[PK_Ultra]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Actalo:

Frankly, I'm a little underwhelmed that in most RPGs, especially CRPGs, players are dealing with world-ending crap and players ascending to god-tier power or killing gods. It's nice sometimes when it's not "the fate of the world" at stake, when it's like "we got local problems, could use your help, but maybe work things out regardless" ... If you save the world in every game, it kinda cheapens the experience. Thankfully, BG3 has well written characters that encouraged emotional investment in seeing to their survival.

This is one thing I really liked about most of Dragon Age 2. Having a more personal scale where you aren't the super special chosen one to save the world is always nice

im actually quite disappointed by games like DA2, it all seems like a soap opera about who screwed who at the table and it all seems like petty squabbling. Its drama for dramas sake. Then you get far reaching plot threads that matter like Morrigan and her child that actually matter to the setting outside of dubious personal stakes. Not to say it cant be done well, Ive watched John Wick, but throwing them in all over the place bogs up the plot and stakes. I do agree though with the notion that your characters shouldnt be "destiny man" who are on their destiny following their destiny and everything goes your way because youre destiny man. Although I dont think the game is too guilty of that.

[PK_Ultra]

Looking back on the Emperor, I think Ive figured out why I didnt side with him in the end. No matter how much I trusted him, he never trusted me back. Hes always telling us to do things because he did X Y and Z for us. But those things also required a sliver of trust on our end. At no point does he trust us back and make the same concessions.

Knowing that the netherbrain was ultimately what set everything in motion and secretly implanted the idea of getting Karsus' compulsion crystal, the thing that we ripped off of the 3 death bosses, I get why he sided with the netherbrain in the end. He was always on the netherbrain's side, he just thinks hes free.

[seeker1]

BG3 is a straight up sequel to Descent to Avernus. It also sets up the canon ending of the campaign where Zariel is ultimately not saved.

Yeah, I'm repeating this point, because it does matter.

People ask why the tiefling refugees are in this game? Well, they'll tell you themselves, but it makes far more sense when you know what happened to Elturel in that module.

The Ravengards are not "DEI inserts" ... the Duke features prominently in the module.

The Blood War and Zariel's motivations make a lot more sense if you know something about it. You'll get what happened to Karlach and why.

It's not like you have to have played it (I haven't) or even know its contents, BUT, it does "set the stage" for a lot of what's going on.

[Popsicles]

Originally posted by PK_Ultra:

For Larian to suss that out, buried so deeply in the last 10 years of lore means they did some hardcore research and I wouldnt be surpised if Sven played all the modules as part of designing BG3's story.

Or they worked closely with the WotC team during development? I doubt it was due to their 'hardcore research.'

[PK_Ultra]

Originally posted by Popsicles:

Originally posted by PK_Ultra:

For Larian to suss that out, buried so deeply in the last 10 years of lore means they did some hardcore research and I wouldnt be surpised if Sven played all the modules as part of designing BG3's story.

Or they worked closely with the WotC team during development? I doubt it was due to their 'hardcore research.'

hey Im not complaining, give em the sparknotes. They clearly know what theyre doing.

[Popsicles]

Originally posted by PK_Ultra:

Originally posted by Popsicles:

Or they worked closely with the WotC team during development? I doubt it was due to their 'hardcore research.'

hey Im not complaining, give em the sparknotes. They clearly know what theyre doing.

Larian worked closely with WotC's Mike Mearls on the story line. Up until WotC canned him.

[Popsicles]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Actalo:

Frankly, I'm a little underwhelmed that in most RPGs, especially CRPGs, players are dealing with world-ending crap and players ascending to god-tier power or killing gods. It's nice sometimes when it's not "the fate of the world" at stake, when it's like "we got local problems, could use your help, but maybe work things out regardless" ... If you save the world in every game, it kinda cheapens the experience. Thankfully, BG3 has well written characters that encouraged emotional investment in seeing to their survival.

This is one thing I really liked about most of Dragon Age 2. Having a more personal scale where you aren't the super special chosen one to save the world is always nice

I agree. I rolled my eyes when I found out about Gale's lover. Or Karlach is the personal bodyguard of who? She's like level 3 when you meet her lol.

Laezel has all the stories of grand adventure on the Astral plane, yet she is a level one adventurerer.

I don't mind the being a bhaalspawn, but when everyone in the party is 'special,' it is a bit nauseating. Poor writing imho.