So the only way to become a vampire is to be gay for Astarion?

[Blackdragon]

I've made Astarion Vampire Ascendant, yet there was no option to ask him to make me a vampire.

Apparently that is because I did not pursue a romantic relationship with him. I am playing a male character who is straight, and rebuffed all of Astarion's advances. However, we still have an extraordinary relationship (i.e. close friendship).

So, the only way a player character can become a vampire is to either play as Astarion (who is gay/bi), or have a romance with Astarion? Straight male characters can't become a vampire?

This is some new level of woke pandering. Gate the vampire race behind literally being/roleplaying gay.

This game is such crap sometimes.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

But all of that pales before the true power of vampirism - that is, the ability to create other vampires, who are completely under your control. And who can create new vampires under their control.

Summing up, becoming a vampire is one of the biggest feats in D&D universe. Of course, computer games do not give a proper representation of all vampire powers, but at least they can give some ground for effectively role-playing a vampire.

Vampire Spawn

Tells me already you're not getting it.

Vampires can create other vampires, not just spawn. And we already know from the game there's even a Vampire Ascension ritual. You figure out the rest.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

The only thing that's even remotely vampiric about Astarion is he has a draining bite attack and that's it. They removed his weakness to running water, he doesn't need an invitation, he can eat normal food, isn't harmed by sunlight

Implementing those weaknesses would have made the game unplayable, unfortunately.

I can easily imagine a D&D CRPG game that could incorporate all of the vampire qualities properly, but no developer apparently wants to ever make anything remotely approaching actual open-world free-form D&D.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

takes damage from necrotic energy and is healed by positive...

That was actually implemented even by the Pathfinder CRPGs regarding undead characters. Don't know why they dropped the ball here.

Overall I agree the actual game mechanics for vampire characters in BG3 are extremely bare-bones. However, the rich narrative content made up for it in my eyes.

[DrZann]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Originally posted by Pyromania™ (She/Her):

bro only women and gay men want to become vampires

You've never played an evil character in D&D then.

To quote another evil undead NPC: Don't you get it? Be a vampire, or a ghost, or an immortal with a paint-by-numbers portrait in the rec room. Hell, even a brain-in-a-jar, in a pinch. Anything to avoid the Big Fire Below.

Physical immortality is one of the big goals for any properly ambitious character. If it also comes with a huge boost in power, so much the better. And vampirism has certain tangible advantages over, say, lichdom - in that you get to retain the appearance of a living person, senses like taste and smell, as well as the ability to engage in sexual intercourse.

But all of that pales before the true power of vampirism - that is, the ability to create other vampires, who are completely under your control. And who can create new vampires under their control.

Summing up, becoming a vampire is one of the biggest feats in D&D universe. Of course, computer games do not give a proper representation of all vampire powers, but at least they can give some ground for effectively role-playing a vampire.

BG3 actually does a pretty good job in this department, offering an entire vampiric storyline culminating with the possibility of turning your main character into a vampire. So finding out that this option is limited only to gay male or female characters was quite a disappointment.

Two things come to my mind herre:

1) In older editions a Vampire (or any Undead Liege) could only control 2xHD of lesser undead which seems more reasonable than the scenario you describe.

2) If Cazador had complete control of his spawn why keep them in cages?

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by DrZann:

Two things come to my mind herre:

1) In older editions a Vampire (or any Undead Liege) could only control 2xHD lesser undead which seems more reasonable than the scenario you describe.

Ah, but the point is not that your character personally controls all vampires, rather these vampires in turn control their own vampire covens, and so on.

Originally posted by DrZann:

2) If Cazador had complete control of his spawn why keep them in cages?

Contingency in case his control ever slips? After all if they were entirely free-willed they might have killed themselves even when caged just to deny their hated master, but they didn't.

[seeker1]

BTW, since I've already posted the mod that lets you turn into a Vampire, there are other mods that make your playable race for your Tav Undead. (In this case, a Ghoul.)

Ghastly Ghouls
https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/5895

Also, this mod buffs Vampire Ascendant for Astarion and could let you "cheat" him becoming this earlier than he should normally.
https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/1914

[gbuglyo]

As someone with zero interest in Astarion and/or turning into a vampire, I fully agree that the game handles companion relationships in a very weird way. If you get a high approval rating, romance is treated as the next step to increase your rating further. The game kind of expects you to want to be romantically involved with them, and it keeps asking if you want to do that, even if you've said no before.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was more romance-gated content in the game (although you'd have to ask someone else as I avoided any and all romances).

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by seeker1:

BTW, since I've already posted the mod that lets you turn into a Vampire, there are other mods that make your playable race for your Tav Undead. (In this case, a Ghoul.)

Ghastly Ghouls
https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/5895

Sweet Jesus those are ugly.
They're like the ugly forms of the vampires in Dusk till Dawn. Nosferatu clan from WoD.
Not my cup of tea to put it mildly.

BTW, you're missing the point of the thread again. I'm not looking for a mod to get "OP vampire powers", my characters are sufficiently OP already.

[DrZann]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Originally posted by DrZann:

Two things come to my mind herre:

1) In older editions a Vampire (or any Undead Liege) could only control 2xHD lesser undead which seems more reasonable than the scenario you describe.

Ah, but the point is not that your character personally controls all vampires, rather these vampires in turn control their own vampire covens, and so on.

But those vampires have lower HD and are bound by the same rules. The Liege/Pawn rules in D&D were established to prevent the very scenario you describe.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

If you get a high approval rating, romance is treated as the next step to increase your rating further.

It isn't, though. Not really. I had Lae'zel's approval bar maxed out after I finished the creche without romancing her.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

As someone with zero interest in Astarion and/or turning into a vampire, I fully agree that the game handles companion relationships in a very weird way. If you get a high approval rating, romance is treated as the next step to increase your rating further. The game kind of expects you to want to be romantically involved with them, and it keeps asking if you want to do that, even if you've said no before.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was more romance-gated content in the game (although you'd have to ask someone else as I avoided any and all romances).

Can't say as I've killed 5 companions out of 9 and romanced 3 of the remaining 4 (the fourth being Astarion).

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

If you get a high approval rating, romance is treated as the next step to increase your rating further.

It isn't, though. Not really. I had Lae'zel's approval bar maxed out after I finished the creche without romancing her before I even left Act 1.

Yeah, I didn't mean increasing the approval rating numerically, just that the game offers romance as the way (the only way) to make that character like you even more. No platonic friendship or D&D-esque camaraderie here, just romance or no romance, with "no romance" meaning you did not max out your potential with the character and likely get locked out of content.

[seeker1]

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

The game kind of expects you to want to be romantically involved with them, and it keeps asking if you want to do that, even if you've said no before.

No it doesn't. They MIGHT flirt with you first, but turn them down; it will not happen again. You won't lose any Approval, AND you can keep raising it.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was more romance-gated content in the game (although you'd have to ask someone else as I avoided any and all romances).

Well ... no, for the most part, as the romances are just side stories.

Only other gated thing I know of is

Divine ascended god of ambition Gale will also offer romanced Tav a chance to become a god as well. But this only happens in the epilogue.

Endings and scenes are "gated" by the romances; but "content" (like being able to become a vampire spawn) - I think Astarion is the only case where this is true.

And as noted, becoming a Spawn only gives you his same Vampire Bite, and fairly late into the game, usually in Act 3.

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

The game kind of expects you to want to be romantically involved with them, and it keeps asking if you want to do that, even if you've said no before.

No it doesn't. They MIGHT flirt with you first, but turn them down; it will not happen again. You won't lose any Approval, AND you can keep raising it.

That's wrong, though. I remember having to turn down Gale three times, Wyll twice and Shadowheart twice (not counting situations in which I could have been flirty and I wasn't, which usually counts as you not wanting to romance that character in other games).

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Originally posted by gbuglyo:

I wouldn't be surprised if there was more romance-gated content in the game (although you'd have to ask someone else as I avoided any and all romances).

Well ... no, for the most part, as the romances are just side stories.

Only other gated thing I know of is

Divine ascended god of ambition Gale will also offer romanced Tav a chance to become a god as well. But this only happens in the epilogue.

Endings and scenes are "gated" by the romances; but "content" (like being able to become a vampire spawn) - I think Astarion is the only case where this is true.

And as noted, becoming a Spawn only gives you his same Vampire Bite, and fairly late into the game, usually in Act 3.

Thanks for the clarification. As I said, I didn't actually get involved in any romantic relationships during my playthrough so I only got that impression about possible romance-gated content due to how hard and how often the game seemed to suggest I was missing out by saying no.

[seeker1]

OK. Well, again, don't take my word for it; the Romance guides for them all say so, but other than Lae'Zel you only need to turn them down once. And that was also my experience.

You may have run into an early Gale bug, possibly; it was patched early on.

[gbuglyo]

Originally posted by seeker1:

OK. Well, again, don't take my word for it; the Romance guides for them all say so, but other than Lae'Zel you only need to turn them down once. And that was also my experience.

You may have run into an early Gale bug, possibly; it was patched early on.

That's possible, as I played the game last year. But that still doesn't explain the issues with Wyll and Shadowheart.

1. Wyll: I had one situation in which I could have acted flirty and I didn't. Later, he still asked me to dance. When I said no, he asked me again right away, so I had to say no twice.

2. Shadowheart: She invited me for a private drink and I said "why not have a drink together with the others". That's hint No. 1 right there that I don't want a romance. Still, the game treated my answer as a yes so I went for the drink anyway to keep my word. Then, the game offered the chance to say something romantic for the toast (I don't remember what) but I opted for a toast to friendship - hint No. 2. Then, she still tried to kiss so I had to slip out of the situation (rejection No. 1). Later, she asked me why I didn't kiss her and I had to say that I liked her, just not that way (rejection No. 2). She also seemed really hurt and offended which was painful to see as I really liked her as a character, it's just that I'm not into optional video game romances at all.

Were these patched as well?