Larian has given up on D&D

[nuther]

Life is too short they said.
We are moving on to bigger and better things.

[zpc]

Originally posted by Wokelander:

I don't understand why everyone expected them to stick with D&D and/or WOTC, they've been doing their own thing for decades quite literally, and just did a licensed product for someone else. They have their own setting and lore they've developed over years as passion projects presumably, seeing as they kept making games in their own setting, I don't think I ever assumed they would abandon that.

Maybe they'll do another D&D project at some point, I figure WOTC are plenty happy about the results

From my pov Larian accepted an inheritance when started BG3. Especially as the reception of the result is so good.

That they just drop it is really awful. They should've made BG3:<the extension>, BG4, NWN3 ... up to a point where the community gets a building tool like we had back in the aurora engine days. (that freakin engine which was even used at university to teach students)

[Lord Yoshi]

Good for them, the ball is their court and they take the reigns on the projects they want to make without being tied to any specific franchise.

[Mike]

Any other rpg game could be great and because it's D&D dont mean much really, how many good vs bad examples are there through the ages. (Most old SSI were great story wise, like Pool of Radiance, Curse of the azure bounds to mention a few - Lets just say it was a tad more about content than gfx back then :) but there have been so soo many bad D&D games as well.

Seems WoTK have been licencing the D&D ip to anyone and their cats for a handful of dollars and it have resulted in a roller-coaster in quality.

Larian seems they didn't want to go along with Hasbro/WoTK anymore so my bet is another Divinity but we will see

[Maraxus]

Swen clearing up this wasn't because of WOTC.

https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1771467986701819943

Kinda funny how some have attributed this to "anti-woke" backlash since this is probably the most popular rpg ever...

Let 'em cook.

[Bray of Cats]

Originally posted by Mike:

Any other rpg game could be great and because it's D&D dont mean much really, how many good vs bad examples are there through the ages. (Most old SSI were great, like Pool of Radiance - Lets just say it was a tad more about content than gfx back then :) but there have been so many bad D&D games as well.

Seems WoTK have been licencing the ip to anyone and their cats for a handful of dollars it would seem.

I know right, Make Games Great Again! Sweet Baby Inc Detective is recruiting real men, to rid the world of minotaur groups in media!

[Foxtrot39]

Well words are a life sim MMO based on DND is in the works somewhere, but that gonna take nearly a decade and no one knows how good/bad its gonna turn out

Disapointed we wont have some sort of epilogue quest but Larian didn't want to change to much the game (If I understood, on of the dev who drived the vision had passed away and they dont wanna touch up its legacy too much on top of other reasons)

[The Undead Watcher]

Originally posted by Raitøx:

Originally posted by Emperor:

And what Larian has to leave in the next game at 100% is the dice roll. This feature has greatly improved the whole process of persuasion or perhaps attacks.
Going back to what was in DOS2 would be a huge step back.

Dice roll are an abomination on computer, in PnP with a human GM it's okay because if you're truly unlucky the GM can do something to make it more fun or less frustrating if you get a lot of 1 or bad rands.
A GM computer doesn't care about you having fun so if you're unlucky you will just pass a horrible moment failing everything without having any control over it because luck can't be controlled, a lot of time in BG3 i got a game over simply because of a failed save rand or a surprise crit who allowed a situation to snowball and there is little you can do to stop that since the one option that existed in old DnD editions to help you with those situation (spellcasting) has been heavily nerfed with the concentration mechanic (the dude who decided that deserve to be fired) so you're just ♥♥♥♥ now.

I feel this so much.
I got into D&D a few years ago for writing my stories (combining video gamey systems with story writing made writing stories fun for me again) and i have way more fun doing that than playing BG3, since i feel like every encounter i have ends in combat and me getting swarmed by thousands of enemies.
I really don't wanna save every 5 seconds so that i can redo a critical roll that prevents me from going into combat.

[Doozie]

Originally posted by Larry:

They "quit" D&D because they want to focus on their own IP, Divinity: Original Sin 3, which is a great series(Really buggy on release though) and take a step back from being one of the biggest name developers in gaming.

Plus they got a ♥♥♥♥ load of backlash for the pandering shoved into their game at the end of development. With this tidal wave of anti-woke only just starting the IP owner of Baldur's Gate are clearly pre-empting this by distancing themselves from Larian's next project.

I mean, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Kotaku stating they're not to get into politics with many more "journalists" following. Leftie leaders the world over falling down like dominos and a mass defunding of ESG, specifically DEI, schemes and grants all over the world is a huge telltale sign that the pendulum has begun to swung in the opposite direction.

Trump is getting in, Europe is making a hard turn to the right. The people of every country when they finally get their voice to be heard are firmly giving a resounding "No, enough is enough." The left is dead and companies don't want to be go down with that sinking ship.

Cause right wing authoritarianism has a history of liberating the common folk from oppression?

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by Larry:

Plus they got a ♥♥♥♥ load of backlash for the pandering shoved into their game at the end of development.

1) It was there from the start, not "shoved into their game at the end of development"
2) They get a "♥♥♥♥ ton of backlash" for breathing. News flash. Gamers are whiny B's about everything. The backlash was small in comparison to the support they got for the exact thing bigoted ♥♥♥♥♥ like yourself were whining about. Yes, yes "WAAAAHHH! SHE SAID BIGOT!!!". I'm calling a duck a duck. That's exactly what the anti-woke whining is. Bigotry. You make up fairy tale excuses to pretend it's being "forced". It's not. You're just bigots.

[Bray of Cats]

Originally posted by Night Foxx (She/her):

Originally posted by Larry:

Plus they got a ♥♥♥♥ load of backlash for the pandering shoved into their game at the end of development.

1) It was there from the start, not "shoved into their game at the end of development"
2) They get a "♥♥♥♥ ton of backlash" for breathing. News flash. Gamers are whiny B's about everything. The backlash was small in comparison to the support they got for the exact thing bigoted ♥♥♥♥♥ like yourself were whining about. Yes, yes "WAAAAHHH! SHE SAID BIGOT!!!". I'm calling a duck a duck. That's exactly what the anti-woke whining is. Bigotry. You make up fairy tale excuses to pretend it's being "forced". It's not. You're just bigots.

The rest of your post is fine but wrong, but you dare call us GG2ers ducks!!!!!!

[brendan_in_china]

I really like BG3, but Solasta is a more faithful adaptation of 5E combat.

If Solasta had much better story-telling (and yes this is front and centre important) + better exploration, I'd be very happy indeed.

So it's not like Larian moving on is so bad. Give the another guy a chance to show their D&D vision.

[NickJ]

Originally posted by ULTRA:

i.e., Hasbro didn't want to give them enough money

That's not how the licensor-licensee relationship works. Larian had to pay Hasbro for the D&D/FR license and IP. If anything Hasbro probably asked for more money to license their IP.

[Mike]

Originally posted by NickJ:

That's not how the licensor-licensee relationship works. Larian had to pay Hasbro for the D&D/FR license and IP. If anything Hasbro probably asked for more money to license their IP.

Considering BG3's success, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Given WoTK's track record lately, greed seems to be their only driving force, everything else be damned. While money is always the number one priority for corporations - Most at least try to get repeat revenue...

[Echsrick]

good, they made a terrible "game" with this anyways

[The Bells Toll]

Originally posted by Popsicles:

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

I mean, I can't estimate exactly how much goodwill has evaporated, but I do know for a fact a number of third party publishers that were making 5e content have moved away from doing it into publishing thier own RPGs after the OGL debacle last year.
Pretty much everyone I know who's into tabletop gaming (which is a sample size of like 20 people, so not at all statistically significant, admittedly) has started moving to systems like Pathfinder 2e and so on because they just don't trust the company or like their business practices anymore.
It's not something they can't recover from if they play their cards right, but there's definitely been a real loss of trust from a lot of people.

Anecdotal and full of conjecture.

D&D and Hasbro had there most successful year EVER last year.

D&D movie + Baldur's Gate = massive profits. Sure Hasbro is in trouble, but D&D is as strong as ever.

How many new kids were turned onto D&D as a result?

A few grognards hiking up their skirts isn't going to kill D&D.

Just want to point out, after the OGL issue, Kobold Press, MCDM, and Critical Role all started developing their own TTRPGs. Paizo, in combination with several other groups including Kobold Press, created their own license, ORC, as an alternative to the OGL and any future changes Hasbro makes to their licensing.

These are not small names in the TTRPG space. (There are theories that the OGL changes were made to get more money out of such organizations. Whether or not that is true I can't speak to, but these groups are large enough that these theories exist.)

It is not anecdotal that D&D has taken a hit.

Yes, BG3 and the movie were both successes.

But they also canceled 5 games at the beginning of 2023, and had a large number of layoffs at the end of 2023, despite WOTC being the most profitable part of Hasbro the past year.

Will they survive? Most certainly. Is D&D and WotC dying? Probably not. But the facts above, and yes I do mean to say facts as these things definitively happened, show that D&D as a brand has definitely taken a hit. Groups/organizations that were heavily tied to the D&D brand are in the process of or have already moved away. Hell, Critical Role is often credited with being a huge part of why 5th ed got so popular in the first place, and they're currently testing Daggerheart.

Yes, we can't speak to exactly how many players and supporters amongst the general fanbase have turned away. Direct experiences, like my own table switching systems, *is* anecdotal. But you can't say that losing the support of organizations like Kobold Press and Critical Role won't take at least some of that fanbase with them.