Why are barbs not considered good?

[lordmilier]

Been playing throw barb in my playthrough atm and man I think barb is crazy good when you frenzy at lvl 5 u already got 3 attacks in 1 turns and if you dip into rogue you will have 4 attacks in a single turn which is insane.

However when I see people ranking classes barbs always rank pretty low on the peoples class tier lists. Another example is how highly people seem to rank wizards personally I think wizards are really weak or the least the worst casters in the game and it is not even close.

[larhtas]

Ranking is subjective.
For example here: https://blackcitadelrpg.com/class-tier-list-5e/
They are S rank.

[Ghost]

Originally posted by larhtas:

Ranking is subjective.

^^^ Adding to this though, should also separate ranking in BG3 and ranking in 5E for even more subjectivity.

The items in BG3 give a lot more options and some insane combos on top of the OP multiclass builds.

While Barbs can do some decent and potentially absurd damage, they don't have much versatility and they're never going to match what most of the others can.

[Kappa]

I think it's the beserker spec that is good then, and not the barbarian class ( as it's the thief spec and not the rogue class ).

[Belphegor]

Considered not good by whom?

[WhamyKaBlamy]

That's news to me. I had no idea people thought barbarians weren't good. I don't really click with them but I never felt like they were terribly lacking.

People really prefer wizard over barbarian? Or am I conflating that in my head?

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by Ghost:

Originally posted by larhtas:

Ranking is subjective.

^^^ Adding to this though, should also separate ranking in BG3 and ranking in 5E for even more subjectivity.

The items in BG3 give a lot more options and some insane combos on top of the OP multiclass builds.

While Barbs can do some decent and potentially absurd damage, they don't have much versatility and they're never going to match what most of the others can.

Few classes in my opinion bring versatility while actually being good at least in my experience it is just paladin and clerics that can bring it all to a fight and do it all good.

The other classes get shoehorned into 1 thing mostly based on their subclass I do not see how this would make barbs any worse in that sense. Also having 1 person on your team that is basically killing 1 or even 2 opponents per turn unless you are fighting a boss is better than bringing someone who can add a heal or a CC.

This mainly has to do with dice roll determine your damage in this game and the fact is throw barb almost never ever misses, and we are talking from lvl 4 onward while yes casters and other classes catch up later on no quest here throw barb has this starting at lvl 4. I do not know what % chances look like on lower difficulty but it feels like most of the game anything that dose CC has a very low % chance to land.

Originally posted by Kappa:

I think it's the beserker spec that is good then, and not the barbarian class ( as it's the thief spec and not the rogue class ).

I mean personally I feel rogues are not good unless you are dipping into rogue to get the thief benefits but maybe thats just me.

[attiladafun]

I don't understand it either. My barb went mad during a combat and took out the other three companions without so much as a scratch. My throw barb with 3 attacks can kill 6 enemies when throwing one at another. And he doesn't run out of steam quickly like a pally, and isn't a glass cannon like a monk. Damage is very reliable without resorting to companion cc tricks.
Come to think of it, only my barb and my abjuration wizard have never died in combat.
Are pure fighters really better at level 12?

[Fluffykeith]

Barbs do one thing. They hit things and stay alive and that’s it. They don’t have much flexibility and they don’t multiclass well with many other classes. They have very limited utility.
But what they do, they’re good at.

[Detective Costeau]

Yeah, I've run a Bearheart barbarian quite a few times and they're perfectly fine.
You're going to range and them smash things with Great Weapon Fighting 95% of the time, but being able to hit very hard with a big weapon while being extremely tanky is useful.
You have 4 party members, it's okay for one to be a one-trick pony as long as they're good enough at the trick.

[seeker1]

There is a Barbarian Rework mod that is really interesting.
https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/4870

Essentially, it reworks the Rage mechanic and lets you "spend" Rage on a series of really interesting special abilities. (It almost kinda reminds me of the Barbarian from Diablo series.)

Warning: it requires script extender. And when I say that, I mean, not only for some of the mechanics, but it will crash your game if you don't have it.

[Mike Garrison]

Wizards have the highest power growth curve in D&D. It used to be even more so.

5e restricted the power of wizards by making spells require "concentration", and thus made it hard to stack the more powerful effects. But wizards are still death machines at high levels.

In contrast, the melee classes like fighter and barbarian have the lowest power growth curves. They start out as the most powerful and survivable classes at low levels, but by the time you get to high levels they end up being sort of support classes for the magic users.

Larian changed the balance around, somewhat, by giving extra magic items especially for the barbs, bards, and monks. They also boosted some things with house rules. Tavern brawler, for example, is significantly better in BG3 than in regular D&D 5e.

[Fluffykeith]

One weird thing about barbarians is that the damage bonus from raging doesn’t scale. It never changes. So early levels it’s decent but it quickly becomes trivial.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

However when I see people ranking classes barbs always rank pretty low on the peoples class tier lists.

This is subjective and very much depends on individual play style and party composition/tactics.

However a lot of folks would say, from experience playing the game, that Lai'zel > Karlach mainly because of Action Surge, Great Weapon Master and the Superiority Dice/Manoeuvres you get from the Battle Master fighter sub-class. In particular the Trip manoeuvre which combined with all the extra attacks etc can be spectacularly effective in first neutralising and then dispatching annoying high level and boss enemies.

Trip + Slice 'n Dice is really, really good 'cos when they're on the ground you can hardly miss 'em and they can't hurt you.

Additionally Paladins stack up very well against Barbarians 'cos of Smite. Smite is very, very good when something needs to die and die fast.

As for:

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Another example is how highly people seem to rank wizards personally I think wizards are really weak or the least the worst casters in the game and it is not even close.

I think @Mike Garrison has it right:

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Wizards have the highest power growth curve in D&D. It used to be even more so.

5e restricted the power of wizards by making spells require "concentration", and thus made it hard to stack the more powerful effects. But wizards are still death machines at high levels.

In contrast, the melee classes like fighter and barbarian have the lowest power growth curves. They start out as the most powerful and survivable classes at low levels, but by the time you get to high levels they end up being sort of support classes for the magic users.

However I would add:

a) wizards in 5e are almost entirely "Swiss army knife" casters being severely restricted by this Concentration spell rule. Thus for many they don't stack up against Sorcerers and Warlocks (or Sorlocks for that matter) as pure damage dealers especially as there are plenty of scrolls available to cover "swiss army knife" type situational requirements.

b) In BG3 there is a *lot* of special equipment available that can drastically enhance the power of casters, including wizards. The trick is to match equipment selection to individual caster spell load out, synergise it so-to-speak.

[Occasum_Solis]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Been playing throw barb in my playthrough atm and man I think barb is crazy good when you frenzy at lvl 5 u already got 3 attacks in 1 turns and if you dip into rogue you will have 4 attacks in a single turn which is insane.

However when I see people ranking classes barbs always rank pretty low on the peoples class tier lists. Another example is how highly people seem to rank wizards personally I think wizards are really weak or the least the worst casters in the game and it is not even close.

Because they cant one turn any boss in the game - Paladin can. Paladin = Chadclass. Its that simpel.

[TheMasterBlaster]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Been playing throw barb in my playthrough atm and man I think barb is crazy good when you frenzy at lvl 5 u already got 3 attacks in 1 turns and if you dip into rogue you will have 4 attacks in a single turn which is insane.

However when I see people ranking classes barbs always rank pretty low on the peoples class tier lists. Another example is how highly people seem to rank wizards personally I think wizards are really weak or the least the worst casters in the game and it is not even close.

all the classes are good in different ways. ignore all of the dumb 'MUST HAVE' and 'BEST' videos and lists regarding feats, skills, races, classes, subclasses, and spells - well, actually there are some spells that are trash.