Astarion in Act 3 after the Ascension gets aggressive in kissing...

[Solar7]

After the Ascension, Astarion is quite aggressive when you ask to kiss him
Like wow... talk about a control freak
Is anyone else getting this?
Can this be changed?

[Mike Garrison]

Wait, you let him ascend, let him kill 6000 vampire spawns in order to become an uber-vampire, and you are *surprised* he then is "an aggressive control freak"?

[id795078477]

For once, some male character grew a pair .. and look what it got him into.

[Draknalor]

Originally posted by Solar7:

After the Ascension, Astarion is quite aggressive when you ask to kiss him
Like wow... talk about a control freak
Is anyone else getting this?
Can this be changed?

Yes ascension makes you a massive douche, Very possessive and controlling.

Just look at how Cazador was.

No, this can't be changed you choose ascension and this is the consequence of those choices.

[Lord Despicable (Allegedly)]

No. Astarion ascending is his bad ending and it shows. The abused becomes the abuser and all that.

[Steffan]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Wait, you let him ascend, let him kill 6000 vampire spawns in order to become an uber-vampire, and you are *surprised* he then is "an aggressive control freak"?

Killing them isn't the problem. It is sacrificing their souls (!)

[Solar7]

wow, and thanks for that :)
btw, I went through this once before and Astarion did not become aggressive; I was wondering if this was new programming.

[Lord Despicable (Allegedly)]

Originally posted by Chaotic Melody:

Total malarkey

Bro TF you talking about?

[Steffan]

Originally posted by Chaotic Melody:

Nah. The writer intended to really punish people who liked Astarion.. through the various guilt trips through out his story to choosing this over the weak-spawn ending and people not 'getting it' that he is 'bad' even IF you play an evil character, thus removing player agency- was the best way to 'get it through to people' that the 'vampire is bad' and should be hated/loathed/abused/killed instead. :)

There is no agenda.

This is the cannon 5e version of the vampire. "Good" is not equal to "strong". He is weaker but comes out as a better person. In your game, pick whatever option you like. But there are consequences.

Also the vampire ascension is a trap. You can read between the lines he is lonely and unhappy despite all that power and immortality.

Not every evil character will choose to ascend him, for one reason or another. One of the possible problems is that this way a powerful entity is created that might be a future threat. It depends on the character rationale, really.

[Awaken]

You messed up, op. He’s happier as a spawn.

[xincaer]

Astarion says many times during the game how he wants the power to dominate and control people. Hes very up front about what he wants. Hes actually a surprisingly honest character. In nearly every scenario he wants to manipulate and control as a method of conflict resolution.

What he wants is the power to control people around him so they can't hurt him. He has giga-trauma from cazador torturing him for 200 years or some ♥♥♥♥, a very broken person/undead/vampire, with a pretty obvious ethical center of 'I will do anything for power, and use anyone for power.'

If you are a paladin Tav, and you let him ascend, it breaks your oath. That should tell you something.

[They call me Yahweh.]

Originally posted by Chaotic Melody:

Nah. The writer intended to really punish people who liked Astarion.. through the various guilt trips through out his story to choosing this over the weak-spawn ending and people not 'getting it' that he is 'bad' even IF you play an evil character, thus removing player agency- was the best way to 'get it through to people' that the 'vampire is bad' and should be hated/loathed/abused/killed instead. :)

No I'm not kidding. Their messaging here was incredibly bad. ONTOP of censoring Ascended's sex scene. No other scene has been censored, including Minthara's VERY graphical scene, but his had to even though it showed even less than Minthara.

Also, those who romance Minthara, a LLOTH SWORN DROW, are not made to feel regret and have domestic violence thrown into their face. :) So its a pretty one sided and heavy handed thing aimed at a very niche group of people.

In other words, its creepy as hell and removing player agency in a 'choose your own adventure' style they promoted to have is wrong no matter how you look at it. If they didn't want evil-playthrus, they shouldn't have half-assed them in and expected everyone to want their character to be a weak little damsel.

Its also hilarious he abuses you WHILE YOU ARE TADPOLED and thus have control over people.. and you're just so scared and intimidated by it. Like, uhmm? So they throw away their own plot device for the sake of visual and emotional abuse towards the player.

There is so much wrong with it. Modders probably won't help much. You should only play a good guy and only give him the spawn ending.. so he can burn up in the sun and be mocked by other party members... but don't worry.. you'll still rush to Karlach's side like a worried lover despite never romancing her.

All the while a toxic as hell fanbase telling people 'you deserved it'.. which is extremely loaded words- considering people identify with a character like Astarion in various ways and may be chose the Ascension ending for more a catharsis of justice/revenge.. something they can't get in life perhaps. But to the head writer at Larian? You just want him as sex object if you do this so you are a bad person. NO excuses. And the fan base enjoys ripping into anyone who did ascend him, in a very weird and creepy way.. almost as if the entire point of the character just wooshed over their heads.

This was a huge agenda pushed by Larian here, but too many people would rather cry at 'the woke' and could care less about this messaging. Because in the end, no on really cares about victims.. only in making them instead.

you are way, way, projecting here lol

[seeker1]

You'd almost think Larian's storyline is kinda about the cycle of abuse, and how people who have been abused for a long time can suddenly turn into the abuser themselves once they have the power, restarting that very same cycle. Because an Ascended Astarion appears heading to be the next Cazador, except maybe with a little more panache. He's now going to start abusing other people, so now there will be more victims like him, and the cycle will repeat.

I mean, I never actually Ascended him, but I DO know how that storyline plays out, and I picked up on this.

[RhiTheWitch]

He's abusive and soulless now.... You're supposed to look upset. Jeez, not to sound like a grumpy old grinch but this is what happens when kids stop reading in schools.

Edit: to clarify, yes this was added recently because so many fans have deceived themselves into thinking ascending him is a morally "good" choice (its not). After you ascend him, his character no longer loves the player character. They wanted to make this very clear since so many people DIDNT have the reading comprehension to get this originally.

[arikel.pv]

I've got a really tiresome discussion of those kiss animations some time ago, the thread is still somewhere there in Suggestions section.
The thread author refused to believe that a manipulative character with long-suppressed inner cruelty and vengefulness cannot evoke negative emotions in his partner by clearly abusing and humiliating him/her, because... he just cannot, that's all.
The only argument was smth like 'He/she (meaning, Tav) did choose it himself/herself, why is he/she disappointed and angered now?'

[GriffinPilgrim]

Originally posted by Chaotic Melody:

Nah. The writer intended to really punish people who liked Astarion.. through the various guilt trips through out his story to choosing this over the weak-spawn ending and people not 'getting it' that he is 'bad' even IF you play an evil character, thus removing player agency- was the best way to 'get it through to people' that the 'vampire is bad' and should be hated/loathed/abused/killed instead. :)

No I'm not kidding. Their messaging here was incredibly bad. ONTOP of censoring Ascended's sex scene. No other scene has been censored, including Minthara's VERY graphical scene, but his had to even though it showed even less than Minthara.

Also, those who romance Minthara, a LLOTH SWORN DROW, are not made to feel regret and have domestic violence thrown into their face. :) So its a pretty one sided and heavy handed thing aimed at a very niche group of people.

In other words, its creepy as hell and removing player agency in a 'choose your own adventure' style they promoted to have is wrong no matter how you look at it. If they didn't want evil-playthrus, they shouldn't have half-assed them in and expected everyone to want their character to be a weak little damsel.

Its also hilarious he abuses you WHILE YOU ARE TADPOLED and thus have control over people.. and you're just so scared and intimidated by it. Like, uhmm? So they throw away their own plot device for the sake of visual and emotional abuse towards the player.

There is so much wrong with it. Modders probably won't help much. You should only play a good guy and only give him the spawn ending.. so he can burn up in the sun and be mocked by other party members... but don't worry.. you'll still rush to Karlach's side like a worried lover despite never romancing her.

All the while a toxic as hell fanbase telling people 'you deserved it'.. which is extremely loaded words- considering people identify with a character like Astarion in various ways and may be chose the Ascension ending for more a catharsis of justice/revenge.. something they can't get in life perhaps. But to the head writer at Larian? You just want him as sex object if you do this so you are a bad person. NO excuses. And the fan base enjoys ripping into anyone who did ascend him, in a very weird and creepy way.. almost as if the entire point of the character just wooshed over their heads.

This was a huge agenda pushed by Larian here, but too many people would rather cry at 'the woke' and could care less about this messaging. Because in the end, no on really cares about victims.. only in making them instead.

Mate, Astarion "ascending" involves murdering 7000 victimised innocents for power. That isn't "catharsis of justice/revenge," Astarion gives Cazador his just desserts either way, it's sheer power lust, not to mention continuing the cycle of abuse. The idea that the already morally dubious Astarion would come out of that as anything but a monster is naive at best.
Also:
"so he can burn up in the sun and be mocked by other party members"
I didn't see a single one mock him. They expressed concern and felt bad for him.