Raphael is a fake?

[tazman1]

Raphael should not have his own realm in the hells but he does.

Raphael has more power then technically possible for lower devils.

Rapael is called directly a cambion by Karlach the only other character that had spent enough time in the hells to know that a Cambion is a mortal half devil.

Therefore Raphael can only be a lord of the hells.

so who is he exactly?

[GriffinPilgrim]

Originally posted by tazman1:

Originally posted by GriffinPilgrim:

That's the opposite of what they're arguing. They think Raphel is secretly something really powerful.

alright since you seem to understand the lore so well and the game rules and mechanics so well that your real name is obviously Greenwood let me ask one important question.

What is the spell he uses to plane shift your entire party.

Remember your the one claiming this have to be a spell of no higher then 7th level.

this is a spell that will plane shift a entire group of people against their will with no save,

Again we are only using your statements to this point. What spell would that be.

I never once claimed that Raphael only had seventh level spells. I don't know where you got the idea that I did.
As to what he used who knows? Spell, magic item, effect of the House, illusion. Not everything is in the basic books you know. Case in point; in Curse of Strahd the titular vampire lord possesses an item called the Heart of Sorrow. It's a 20 foot crystal in a heart shape that absorbs up to 50 damage done to Strahd no matter how far away he is then it breaks. Any damage less than 50 is regenerated each dawn. This item does not exist anywhere else in D&D lore, it was created just for that one campaign. Raphael can have similar stuff.

[seeker1]

Raphael's race in BG3.wiki is Cambion.

That stuff is usually taken directly from game files, and the game files I believe describe him as a Cambion. Not only that, but several people all call him a Cambion, so you don't have to trust him (cuz I get why you shouldn't trust him).

Now, bear in mind, as has been said numerous times, races can vary and grow in power. A dwarf could just run a clothing shop, or could be a lvl 20 barbarian known for slaying devil princes. So too can cambions. Some are just pretty weak - like the ones you summon with Planar Ally. Some, like Mizora or Raphael, have grown in power. Just like the player and their companions can.

[tazman1]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Raphael's race in BG3.wiki is Cambion.

That stuff is usually taken directly from game files, and the game files I believe describe him as a Cambion. Not only that, but several people all call him a Cambion, so you don't have to trust him (cuz I get why you shouldn't trust him).

Now, bear in mind, as has been said numerous times, races can vary and grow in power. A dwarf could just run a clothing shop, or could be a lvl 20 barbarian known for slaying devil princes. So too can cambions. Some are just pretty weak - like the ones you summon with Planar Ally. Some, like Mizora or Raphael, have grown in power. Just like the player and their companions can.

And Elminster is just a Human Wizard dressed in Red

[Brishan]

Hmm first for Griffin. Strahd isn't just any vampire he's a lord of ravenloft and as such has bonus's that make him basically a lesser god while within his realm. (Creating such an artifact is easy for something of his power.) For seeker1 Cambion is a half devil nothing in their information in any incarnation would grant them abilities beyond what a max level caster can have and to date nothing in fifth edition short of a God or Godspawn can force teleport someone without a save being made like Raphael does. In fact only one member of the hells has that level of power outside of his respective level of hell and of those who can do it in their respective levels there are only the lord of each level. Things don't add up with raphael we aren't being told something.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by Brishan:

Hmm first for Griffin. Strahd isn't just any vampire he's a lord of ravenloft and as such has bonus's that make him basically a lesser god while within his realm. (Creating such an artifact is easy for something of his power.) For seeker1 Cambion is a half devil nothing in their information in any incarnation would grant them abilities beyond what a max level caster can have and to date nothing in fifth edition short of a God or Godspawn can force teleport someone without a save being made like Raphael does. In fact only one member of the hells has that level of power outside of his respective level of hell and of those who can do it in their respective levels there are only the lord of each level. Things don't add up with raphael we aren't being told something.

Still making a lot of assumptions about that "force teleport"
Namely that it's unlikely it was forced and no guarantee it was even a teleport.

Plenty of instances too where the player character or party fails what would be a save without rolling a save in a cutscene

[tazman1]

https://www.aidedd.org/dnd/monstres.php?vo=cambion

So obviously not Rapheal.

Granted Griffin already knew that.

But for the rest of you that seem to have no idea of the actual game this is based on here is the creature stats that Rapheal has.

Oh wait a second does that say he is a servant to a greater devil. Why yes yes it does.

So Rapheal the Cambion CAN NOT BE The creature we meet.

[tazman1]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Originally posted by Brishan:

Hmm first for Griffin. Strahd isn't just any vampire he's a lord of ravenloft and as such has bonus's that make him basically a lesser god while within his realm. (Creating such an artifact is easy for something of his power.) For seeker1 Cambion is a half devil nothing in their information in any incarnation would grant them abilities beyond what a max level caster can have and to date nothing in fifth edition short of a God or Godspawn can force teleport someone without a save being made like Raphael does. In fact only one member of the hells has that level of power outside of his respective level of hell and of those who can do it in their respective levels there are only the lord of each level. Things don't add up with raphael we aren't being told something.

Still making a lot of assumptions about that "force teleport"
Namely that it's unlikely it was forced and no guarantee it was even a teleport.

then where were our saves to avoid it.

I had Karlach in my party SHE WOULD NOT EVER WILLINGLY GO BACK TO THE HELLS.

So yeah it was forced. Shadowheart again wold not go to hells willingly (the shadowrealm likely yes) And then my wizard would not just let some strange man offering help to teleport him anywhere without telling him what the deal is because he has an above 5 INT

So yeah there are no assumptions about it being forced it was pure and simple. and there was no save.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by tazman1:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Still making a lot of assumptions about that "force teleport"
Namely that it's unlikely it was forced and no guarantee it was even a teleport.

then where were our saves to avoid it.

I had Karlach in my party SHE WOULD NOT EVER WILLINGLY GO BACK TO THE HELLS.

So yeah it was forced. Shadowheart again wold not go to hells willingly (the shadowrealm likely yes) And then my wizard would not just let some strange man offering help to teleport him anywhere without telling him what the deal is because he has an above 5 INT

So yeah there are no assumptions about it being forced it was pure and simple. and there was no save.

It's called a cutscene dumb ♥♥♥♥
Did you make a save when you got flung around the nautiloid?

[iamcorn]

Originally posted by tazman1:

Rapael is called directly a cambion by Karlach the only other character that had spent enough time in the hells to know that a Cambion is a mortal half devil.

To be fair they also seem to think an Orthon is higher up the devil chain than a Pit Fiend, of which Karlach "Used to string up for fun." apparently.

But also Raphael has over twice as much health as a Pit Fiend does (666 vs 300) and even more than TTRPG Zariel for that matter.

[tazman1]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Originally posted by tazman1:

then where were our saves to avoid it.

I had Karlach in my party SHE WOULD NOT EVER WILLINGLY GO BACK TO THE HELLS.

So yeah it was forced. Shadowheart again wold not go to hells willingly (the shadowrealm likely yes) And then my wizard would not just let some strange man offering help to teleport him anywhere without telling him what the deal is because he has an above 5 INT

So yeah there are no assumptions about it being forced it was pure and simple. and there was no save.

It's called a cutscene dumb ♥♥♥♥
Did you make a save when you got flung around the nautiloid?

did you make a save when you pulled the trigger to crash the nautiloid

Seriously thats your rebutal.

Umm dude there is a difference between the ship crashing and you getting flung all over the place and

the ENTIRE LORE OF THE REALMS AND RULES MYSTRA PUT FORTH ON MAGIC BEING VIOLATED.

The second is what happens with Rapheal its called lore maybe read up on the game this is based on and its lore.

[Brishan]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Originally posted by tazman1:

then where were our saves to avoid it.

I had Karlach in my party SHE WOULD NOT EVER WILLINGLY GO BACK TO THE HELLS.

So yeah it was forced. Shadowheart again wold not go to hells willingly (the shadowrealm likely yes) And then my wizard would not just let some strange man offering help to teleport him anywhere without telling him what the deal is because he has an above 5 INT

So yeah there are no assumptions about it being forced it was pure and simple. and there was no save.

It's called a cutscene dumb ♥♥♥♥
Did you make a save when you got flung around the nautiloid?

The nautiloid where you were unconscious (unable to make a save) the first time it jumped and you were responsible for the jump when it came back to the prime? Rules for vehicles are a bit different by the way if you weren't just being a troll you might have known and understood that it's actually covered in the core books that when you are inside of a vehicle that saves for movement if they exist are on the vessel not the characters within it. By the way no assumption needed to know it was a forced teleport/planeshift none of my party had agreed to enter the hells.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by Brishan:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

It's called a cutscene dumb ♥♥♥♥
Did you make a save when you got flung around the nautiloid?

The nautiloid where you were unconscious (unable to make a save) the first time it jumped and you were responsible for the jump when it came back to the prime? Rules for vehicles are a bit different by the way if you weren't just being a troll you might have known and understood that it's actually covered in the core books that when you are inside of a vehicle that saves for movement if they exist are on the vessel not the characters within it. By the way no assumption needed to know it was a forced teleport/planeshift none of my party had agreed to enter the hells.

Before you went unconscious, dumb ♥♥♥♥

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by tazman1:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

It's called a cutscene dumb ♥♥♥♥
Did you make a save when you got flung around the nautiloid?

did you make a save when you pulled the trigger to crash the nautiloid

Seriously thats your rebutal.

Umm dude there is a difference between the ship crashing and you getting flung all over the place and

the ENTIRE LORE OF THE REALMS AND RULES MYSTRA PUT FORTH ON MAGIC BEING VIOLATED.

The second is what happens with Rapheal its called lore maybe read up on the game this is based on and its lore.

It's a cutscene you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ neanderthal. Not all cutscenes let you roll a save. Like there was never an insight check for Orin even when she was posing as a party member

[Hellsteeth30]

He's a few tiers up from the regular Cambions on account of his dad. He's no pit fiend but he's pretty powerful, he's also prideful and arrogant which is why he gets murked.

Paternal/Maternal love isn't really a thing in the hells though, in fact he's acting against his dad really in game.

As for why he has his own house, Zariel is usually busy tearing demons a new one plus he's not really a threat to her or that's her impression.

As long as he plays by the rules he's fine.

[tazman1]

Originally posted by Hellsteeth30:

He's a few tiers up from the regular Cambions on account of his dad. He's no pit fiend but he's pretty powerful, he's also prideful and arrogant which is why he gets murked.

Paternal/Maternal love isn't really a thing in the hells though, in fact he's acting against his dad really in game.

As for why he has his own house, Zariel is usually busy tearing demons a new one plus he's not really a threat to her or that's her impression.

As long as he plays by the rules he's fine.

yes and the politics of the hells those rules would be souls he collects would be taxed by Zariel and by his father.

This would be how the would attempt to keep him from becoming powerful enough to challenge them. Something both the lord of the 8th and the lord of the 1st would want.

Especially Zareil since she literally took that position from the very lord that caused her fall from grace.