The Evil run is so bad. *spoiler*

[Gearwar]

As the title says.: you lose out on like 4 companions, gaining nothing in return.
You lose out on so much content.
A lot of the quests do barely factor in your "evil" behaviour down the line at all. So you might as well be a good guy or atleast neutral.
The evil ending cuts you out of a satisfying base game epilogue. There is not even a ctscene where you whack the emperor or Orpheus respectively. It also cuts you out for the added "epilogue" ending, which for some reason is the only way to get the most satisfying bad ending.
In order to get it you have to do the good thing first so you can be forced to do the bad thing later, and it barely makes any sense because multiple people all move on to meet their respective goal.

Why are there no tailor made cutscenes for an evil playthrough? Or anything that rewards or justifies it? All you do is just lose stuff by doing evil things.

Its stuff like this why Pathfinder Wrath of the righteous is still the superior CRPG. Voice Acting or no, bugs or no, whatever.

[Maraxus]

I just hope the enhanced edition feels like a new game that includes all the interesting feedback like this. I am gonna play through Dos1 and 2 EEs to have a better idea of what to expect though.

[DontMisunderstand]

So... for an RPG, the mere notion of a "good" or "evil" run fundamentally misunderstands the entire genre. Yes, by being a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ person, you lose out on several companions in BG3. That doesn't make it a bad RPG, in fact it's literally the opposite. Reasonable consequences for your actions is necessary to any RPG. The actual problem with the "evil" run is a problem that still exists in a "good" run... there aren't enough options for companions, period. You either run with a group that doesn't really get along with your character, or build your character around getting along with them in the first place.

As an aside... my current playthrough wiped out the grove, currently rolling with Astarion, Laezel, and Minthara to go with my Circle of Spores Druid PC. The character concept is a sort of might-makes-right naturalist offended by the "civilized" folk's aversion to that most necessary part of nature... death. Because I can kill you, it is then morally acceptable to do so, that's the natural order. It's an interesting and nuanced take on important philosophical questions that arrives at answers most people would consider "evil"... and even more interestingly, this is the basis of the strong bonds that formed between these specific people who happen to make up my party. They all share some fundamental agreement with the philosophy of my PC, and that in turn just generally leads them to get along.

I'm not trying to say you're playing the game wrong. What I'm saying is that you're playing the game in a way that doesn't let you notice what it does well.

[Gearwar]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

So... for an RPG, the mere notion of a "good" or "evil" run fundamentally misunderstands the entire genre. Yes, by being a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ person, you lose out on several companions in BG3. That doesn't make it a bad RPG, in fact it's literally the opposite. Reasonable consequences for your actions is necessary to any RPG. The actual problem with the "evil" run is a problem that still exists in a "good" run... there aren't enough options for companions, period. You either run with a group that doesn't really get along with your character, or build your character around getting along with them in the first place.

As an aside... my current playthrough wiped out the grove, currently rolling with Astarion, Laezel, and Minthara to go with my Circle of Spores Druid PC. The character concept is a sort of might-makes-right naturalist offended by the "civilized" folk's aversion to that most necessary part of nature... death. Because I can kill you, it is then morally acceptable to do so, that's the natural order. It's an interesting and nuanced take on important philosophical questions that arrives at answers most people would consider "evil"... and even more interestingly, this is the basis of the strong bonds that formed between these specific people who happen to make up my party. They all share some fundamental agreement with the philosophy of my PC, and that in turn just generally leads them to get along.

I'm not trying to say you're playing the game wrong. What I'm saying is that you're playing the game in a way that doesn't let you notice what it does well.

I understand the point you are trying to make but to equate evil playthrough with "well they just die so there is nothing".. is not really holding up for me.

Why is the Bhaal ending the same as the absolute ending? Even if you lose companions or people, why is it not possible to have cutscenes that show the travesty of your decisions? Why is everything animated around you being the hero of baldurs gate? Hell even if you want to get the bad ending and its cutscene for the epilogue you have to do the good basic ending. And the bad ending for the epilogue is a lot better and more sophisticated than the bad ending of the actual base game.

I don't mind losing characters as an evil guy or losing certain paths. But there is no alternative for your choice either in storyline or cutscenes. I mean I killed Jaheera after meeting her family and they still tell me to look after i butchered her. Its just an oversight.

Why Is there no epilogue for an evil playthrough? I wanna send Astarion out to conquer neverwinter as an ascendent. But there is just nothing.

I guess thats my point. Its just lackluster. "Evil" has no good alternative.

[DrZann]

Probably the only game I played that had a really great evil character arch was Tyranny by Obsidian Games.

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by Gearwar:

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

So... for an RPG, the mere notion of a "good" or "evil" run fundamentally misunderstands the entire genre. Yes, by being a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ person, you lose out on several companions in BG3. That doesn't make it a bad RPG, in fact it's literally the opposite. Reasonable consequences for your actions is necessary to any RPG. The actual problem with the "evil" run is a problem that still exists in a "good" run... there aren't enough options for companions, period. You either run with a group that doesn't really get along with your character, or build your character around getting along with them in the first place.

As an aside... my current playthrough wiped out the grove, currently rolling with Astarion, Laezel, and Minthara to go with my Circle of Spores Druid PC. The character concept is a sort of might-makes-right naturalist offended by the "civilized" folk's aversion to that most necessary part of nature... death. Because I can kill you, it is then morally acceptable to do so, that's the natural order. It's an interesting and nuanced take on important philosophical questions that arrives at answers most people would consider "evil"... and even more interestingly, this is the basis of the strong bonds that formed between these specific people who happen to make up my party. They all share some fundamental agreement with the philosophy of my PC, and that in turn just generally leads them to get along.

I'm not trying to say you're playing the game wrong. What I'm saying is that you're playing the game in a way that doesn't let you notice what it does well.

I understand the point you are trying to make but to equate evil playthrough with "well they just die so there is nothing".. is not really holding up for me.

Why is the Bhaal ending the same as the absolute ending? Even if you lose companions or people, why is it not possible to have cutscenes that show the travesty of your decisions? Why is everything animated around you being the hero of baldurs gate? Hell even if you want to get the bad ending and its cutscene for the epilogue you have to do the good basic ending. And the bad ending for the epilogue is a lot better and more sophisticated than the bad ending of the actual base game.

I don't mind losing characters as an evil guy or losing certain paths. But there is no alternative for your choice either in storyline or cutscenes. I mean I killed Jaheera after meeting her family and they still tell me to look after i butchered her. Its just an oversight.

Why Is there no epilogue for an evil playthrough? I wanna send Astarion out to conquer neverwinter as an ascendent. But there is just nothing.

I guess thats my point. Its just lackluster. "Evil" has no good alternative.

I see. I understand the your perspective, it just isn't one that has ever made sense in my head. To my mind, the story of an RPG is what happens between the part where I first get to make a decision, and the final decision I make. I understand that some people value the narrator giving some flourish to the things that happen after those decisions are made. I don't get it, but I get that others do.

[Gearwar]

Originally posted by DrZann:

Probably the only game I played that had a really great evil character arch was Tyranny by Obsidian Games.

Hell yea my man!

Oh edit: Gotta give props to Kotor 1... when you turn evil and then start to ♥♥♥♥ around with your companions. Now that is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evil. The stuff you do with Mission... thats just art.

[Gearwar]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

Originally posted by Gearwar:

I understand the point you are trying to make but to equate evil playthrough with "well they just die so there is nothing".. is not really holding up for me.

Why is the Bhaal ending the same as the absolute ending? Even if you lose companions or people, why is it not possible to have cutscenes that show the travesty of your decisions? Why is everything animated around you being the hero of baldurs gate? Hell even if you want to get the bad ending and its cutscene for the epilogue you have to do the good basic ending. And the bad ending for the epilogue is a lot better and more sophisticated than the bad ending of the actual base game.

I don't mind losing characters as an evil guy or losing certain paths. But there is no alternative for your choice either in storyline or cutscenes. I mean I killed Jaheera after meeting her family and they still tell me to look after i butchered her. Its just an oversight.

Why Is there no epilogue for an evil playthrough? I wanna send Astarion out to conquer neverwinter as an ascendent. But there is just nothing.

I guess thats my point. Its just lackluster. "Evil" has no good alternative.

I see. I understand the your perspective, it just isn't one that has ever made sense in my head. To my mind, the story of an RPG is what happens between the part where I first get to make a decision, and the final decision I make. I understand that some people value the narrator giving some flourish to the things that happen after those decisions are made. I don't get it, but I get that others do.

But its not an issue of subjectivity though. Again, even the good "evil" cutscenes are hidden behind a "good" playthrough.

Whenever you do something bad in Bg3.. the game just cuts out the according cutscene and lets the characters die and calls it a day.

There is no ying to its yang. It only rewards good playthroughs with additional content and cutscenes and if you stray from that path you get a questlog update with nothing else.

its a real shame DontMisunderstand

[Toaster Maximus]

Evil Gale becomes q god. if you play them and select right options

[votadc]

Originally posted by Toaster Maximus:

The reward for an evil play through is becoming the absolute

You can do It in a good one betraying the emperor/Orpheus at the last minute. You will get more gear and more companions in the meantime. It shouldn't even be so evil....I mean you saved tieflings, you lifted the curse and now you are the Absolute....you aren't the one that gathered the Myrkul army. No idea why an ally of Gortash that destroy the brain Is good and a righteous paladin that saved everyone and control the brain Is evil....controlling the brain also avoid giving the crown to evil Raphael and Mystra

[brendan_in_china]

Originally posted by Toaster Maximus:

Evil Gale becomes q god. if you play them and select right options

Is that the evil outcome?? I helped Gale to value his life and pursue a worthy wizard's endeavour. He became a demigod. Did I miss something?

[lordgizka]

I think I'll do an evil honor run next. I want to have freaking Minthara in the party at least once.

[mike_hanna211]

I'm doing my Dark Urge play-through (with the default white Dragonborn sorcerer character) and I'm totally going with the voices and feelings in my head. And being an evil prick while I'm at it.

I've already lost Astarion, Gale (hilariously severing his hand while he was stuck in the portal), and Wyll got killed in the battle at the gate to Emerald Grove. I found Shadowheart, and even though I was being an ass to her, she joined me in Emerald Grove. I finally got Withers and hired a rogue and fighter hirelings. It was a pain in the ass getting into the Dank Crypt with no rogue.

I'm about to go visit Auntie Ethel.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

So... for an RPG, the mere notion of a "good" or "evil" run fundamentally misunderstands the entire genre.

Moral ambiguity in itself is evil.

I'm not trying to say you're playing the game wrong. What I'm saying is that you're playing the game in a way that doesn't let you notice what it does well.

Strange game design, I can just imagine the design meetings ... "George: 'okay folks our goal is to produce a game in which the player thinks the game is bad' ... Sue: 'Genius!'"

[EricHVela]

The game has a bias towards "good" heroism. There's no doubting that. (My extinction run was tedious and, overall, boring. So much content lost.)

The game lets the characters do bad things, but it doesn't reward the player for it. Is it wrong to do that?

The vast majority will want to complete the game feeling like the characters are champions of the innocent and just.

[ChuckyDontCare]

Originally posted by lordgizka:

I think I'll do an evil honor run next. I want to have freaking Minthara in the party at least once.

She's the biggest payoff for sure at least with DUrge. Netherbrain roll call before the fight is hilarious as DUrge.