Examining Baldur's Gate 3: A Revolution in CRPGs and Gaming Standards?

[Woke Buster]

Alrighty, the hype hysteria has died off, making it the perfect time to evaluate how Baldur's Gate 3 has transformed the landscape of CRPGs and gaming as a whole. Given the high acclaim, numerous awards, and GOTY titles, one would expect an abundance of innovative features alongside enhancements to classic mechanics. Let's delve into it!

The journey begins at the character creation screen, where several aspects immediately stand out: a limited selection of customization options and unconventional choices such as body types in place of traditional gender options, and the inclusion of rare skin conditions (what's the name of it? sorry, I keep forgetting). As the result, the randomizer feature often results in absurd character appearances: some weird pink hair, funny beard, ugly tatoos, white skin spots, and etc. A very promising start indeed!

Progressing past the tutorial and investing a few hours into gameplay reveals a mix of impressive and innovative features:

Collecting and sorting, and selling trash non-stop. Inventory management is even worse than it was in DOS1 and DOS2. This cumbersome system turns item organization and vendor interactions into a tedious chore, unless you find joy in looting millions of useless boxes and containers. It looks like Larian thinks "the more boxes the better" or something. Bad.

The user interface. I played mages my entire life, and why there is no way to differentiate between known and unknown spells during trade or inventory management in BG3 is beyond me. BG1 has this feature. I'm pretty sure none of their UI guys ever played the originals. Why bother?

It seem they improved the slow character movement and NPC looped dialogues over DOS1 and DOS2, alas they are still annoying. In DOS:1, if you stayed for too long near certain NPC they could drive you mad, literally. It took Larian 10+ years to understand this simple issue.

If you played BG1 or BG2, you will notice the absence of day-night cycles. You can argue that they replaced it with a more primitive camp mechanics, however, its implementation falls short of the depth seen in games like Dragon Age: Origins. It's just a copy-paste, without any improvements. Dissapoiting for a GOTY.

The "innovative" speak with dead feature, while intriguing, feels like a rehashed concept from older games like Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. Again, just a copy paste. I don't see any attempts to improve it further.

Crafting. It just... exists. It's boring, useless, and feels like a filler content. Even DOS:1 had better crafting than BG3. Why add it at all if you aren't capable of doing it properly? But a GOTY game must have some crafting, even if it's just a checkbox. I think you, my dear reader, already know that we will be talking about checkboxes very, very soon. :)

Non-lethal knockouts. Feels like they added it at some point and then forgot it's there. Even worse than with "crafting". It feels that they had so many ideas (or, most likely, took these ideas from other games), but weren't capable of actually implementing them to the fullest. Again, this is not something you expect from a GOTY.

Despite my criticisms so far, the game's sounds and visuals are commendable, with high-quality graphics and soundtracks. However, there are many other games with good music and graphics out there. It's not special at all. I would rather prefer a high quality writing, good story, fun gameplay, to an eye candy souless product which is boring to play after you finish the first act. BG1 and BG2 have very outdated graphics, but still are extremely fun to play. More fun than BG3, for me, at least.

Companions. BG2 had quite innovative romancing mechanics with very good writing and pace. It was interesting, fresh, and engaging. It took time to build relationships, to learn more about characters, to see how they develop and grow. BG3 has romanceable companions as well... and here, I want to stop writing. Seriously. There are threads on this topic almost every single day. The local activists claim these threads are created by the same person, so who am I to doubt the highly respected woke committee? Skipping.

Combat. Well, if you want to play a good turn-based tactical game - go play the XCOM series. They simply do it better, it's more fun, there is more challenge and etc. Even real time with pause in BG1 and BG2 feels so much better and engaging than what we have in BG3. AI is stupid, encounters are boring, there is zero challenge, and etc. I see no improvement here at all. Somehow DOS:2 and even DOS:1 had a much better and more fun combat.

Storytelling. Mediocre at best. Not even close to titles like Planescape Torment or Disco: Elisium. Larian is simply bad at this, it is a known fact. And sadly, I don't see any improvement since DOS:1 at all. Quest design isn't good either. For example, try to compare it with Witcher 3 side quests and stories. I can name many more games that do it better, and for a GOTY cRPG, having such weak writing is very, very dissapointing.

Worldbuilding, immersion, and lore. By the time I reached Baldur's Gate city, I had a feeling that I'm not in a medieval fairy tale setting, but in a modern day United States of America. "Modern" narratives and agendas were screaming at me from every corner. I had a habbit to talk with almost every single random NPC since BG1, and they usually had some cool flavor interactions, which added to the immersion. I had the last drop when some random dwarven cook decided to scream about his HUSBAND in front of my party. Probably, that happens all the time with the person who created such "interactions". You go to McDonalds, and the first thing the cashier says to you: "Heya! My name is Steve, and I'm a married guy. My husband's name is John, and we are g*ys!!!" Makes total sense. DEI checkbox ticked!

Marketing. This is where Larian truly outperformed themselves! Getting such an iconic name for their new Divinity: Original Sin 3 game, adding a perfect amount of DEI nonsense to stir up the local minorities to do the screaming for them for free. And as always, being true to their success recipe:

*Launch an Early Release, free beta testers will do the work for you.
*Polish act 1 only, most people only play act 1 and never finish the game.
*Most reviews will be based on act 1, so don't put too much effort into late game.
*If something goes wrong, just keep saying "we will fix it later!".

As a result: no Upper City (or whatever part of BG is missing, I don't care tbh), tons of bugs, poor performance in act 3, a lot of unfinished, cut, and rushed content. And another halmark of Larian: the so called "Definitive Edition", of course. Which basically means, if there are bugs, unfinished features, poorly implemented mechanics and etc - you can always say "we are gonna fix all that in the Definitive Edition! Just wait a few years". How convenient.

Respecting the source material, being true to the predecessor games. There is a very good thread on Reddit regarding this. It's mostly about characters from BG1 and BG2, and people already said everything there. You can easily find it if you want. The problem here is that Larian did a terrible job, and most of the classic characters exist simply as punch bags/stepping stones for the origin characters. Bad, boring, sloppy. Very low effort.

I have more stuff on my list, but I think that's already enough. My final verdict: 6 out of 10. 7 tops, IF they do a definitive edition and fix most of the bugs in ~2-5 years. Most likely, I won't be playing it anyway, since I had to force myself to finish the game after reaching Act 3. Now, I'm just bored. These forums here are more entertaining than the game itself. And why play a mediocre BG3 when BG1 and BG2 exist? The famous SCS mod was recently updated to version v35, so I guess it's time for another run! ^_^

[Woke Buster]

Forgot to add these two important points:

1) BG3 has no world map. It uses exactly the same system from DOS:1 and DOS:2 - a single, cramped world, and waypoints to compensate for the annoyingly slow character movement speed. No sense of exploration, no sense of danger while traveling between zones like in BG1 and BG2... It's all gone.

2) Dark Urge. It's fun, yes. But again, it's nothing new. Try playing Fallout 2 with low INT. You will be very surprised how the game suddenly becomes a totally new experience, with new dialogues and progression choices. Just check out YouTube; there are low INT runs there. So again, veterans have seen it all before. Larian can only "surprise" younger generations, who never played the classic games of the past.

[Hellsteeth30]

Everything it does has been done already, better, by the same studio.

Baldur's Gate was Badge-Fu. DOS 2 was a classic Volvo, solid and dependable (eventually) plus affordable.

Then Mercedes bought them, slapped the badge on it, spent a load on extras and now it spends most of it's time in a service depot.

Oh and here's a Jaheira and Minsc bobblehead for your dashboard.

DA: Origins did everything BG 3 did but better, even Shale craps all over the companions in this game.

[SlaughterWare]

Storytelling mediocre at best? lol

Disagree, friend. I couldn't keep reading after that. I think the story is fantastic and interweaves a sense of urgency, mystery and complexity. Its layers converge seamlessly, culminating in an inevitable climax where the allies you've supported rally to your side. The characters, with their individual goals and emotional arcs, all experience growth, grappling with situations that challenge and reshape their perspectives, which leads to some intense scenes of high emotion. Don't even get me started on how well the dialogue is written. Plus all the romance is the icing on the cake.

What more could you ask?
Might not be your cup of tea, but mediocre?

Let's hear your best BG4 plotline then, see if you can do better.

[ULTRA]

Disco Elysium is the one where you spend the whole game walking around a city block talking to random people only to find out that the killer was no one you even met, right

[Woke Buster]

Originally posted by Hellsteeth30:

DA: Origins did everything BG 3 did but better, even Shale craps all over the companions in this game.

Exactly.

Originally posted by EvilKris:

Let's hear your best BG4 plotline then, see if you can do better.

One doesn't need to be a chef to know the food is bad.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by ULTRA:

Disco Elysium is the one where you spend the whole game walking around a city block talking to random people only to find out that the killer was no one you even met, right

If you thought it was going to be a game about deducing who committed the murder after the first five minutes, I dunno how. Disco Elysium is great.

On the other hand comparing its plot to Baldur's Gate 3 is completely unfair given the design of each game.

Disco Elysium tells a bunch of short stories that are largely isolated set in one location and gets to use a defined protagonist.

Baldur's Gate 3 progresses to different locations with dozens of characters who may or may not be alive with stories that connect a bit more, and an undefined protagonist. There are obvious constraints there that restrict the kind of stories they can tell.

[Butcher]

Originally posted by Hellsteeth30:

Everything it does has been done already, better, by the same studio.

Baldur's Gate was Badge-Fu. DOS 2 was a classic Volvo, solid and dependable (eventually) plus affordable.

Then Mercedes bought them, slapped the badge on it, spent a load on extras and now it spends most of it's time in a service depot.

Oh and here's a Jaheira and Minsc bobblehead for your dashboard.

DA: Origins did everything BG 3 did but better, even Shale craps all over the companions in this game.

Combat in DoS2 was especially better, with skill damage being guaranteed instead of RNG gambling fiesta. I feel like map in DoS2 was more open too, especially once you get teleport spell (gloves at the start of act 1). Same for character progression, free point allocation allowed for easy multiclass, with some spells requiring 2 disciplines (like in DoS1).

I feel like writing in DoS2 was better too, maybe because Chris Avellone was involved. Just like he was involved in both Pathfinders.

[LunarisRuin]

Originally posted by User-315-708:

Originally posted by Hellsteeth30:

DA: Origins did everything BG 3 did but better, even Shale craps all over the companions in this game.

Exactly.

Originally posted by EvilKris:

Let's hear your best BG4 plotline then, see if you can do better.

One doesn't need to be a chef to know the food is bad.

Change know to think.

Subjectivity is something people like you, who play critic, forget.

[Toaster Maximus]

Originally posted by User-315-708:

Forgot to add these two important points:

1) BG3 has no world map. It uses exactly the same system from DOS:1 and DOS:2 - a single, cramped world, and waypoints to compensate for the annoyingly slow character movement speed. No sense of exploration, no sense of danger while traveling between zones like in BG1 and BG2... It's all gone.

2) Dark Urge. It's fun, yes. But again, it's nothing new. Try playing Fallout 2 with low INT. You will be very surprised how the game suddenly becomes a totally new experience, with new dialogues and progression choices. Just check out YouTube; there are low INT runs there. So again, veterans have seen it all before. Larian can only "surprise" younger generations, who never played the classic games of the past.

Oh forgot low int in fallout 2 was bloody fun even though a female with low int had some questionable outcomes even back then

[Rabouk]

BG3 as a whole is a contradictory hotchpotch.

Its opened RPG elements are contradicted by its on-rail narrow narrative premise and progression system. 

Its tactical elements are contradicted by its poor pace and poorly balanced power creeping that makes any party overpowered way too fast.

Its epicness is contradicted by its constant tongue-in-cheek writing and borderline parody vibe.

Its crafting depth is contradicted by ... crafting basically not existing lol

The only reason it's so hyped is because of the over promoted sex and romances. It's only innovating in the sense that it's basically the Netflix of RPGs.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by User-315-708:

As the result, the randomizer feature often results in absurd character appearances: some weird pink hair, funny beard, ugly tatoos, white skin spots, and etc. A very promising start indeed!

HAHA! A lil shock and awe.

I think Larian's hand was forced regarding the DEI checkboxes. If this forum is any indication there was a loud voice in their ear. Plus you have Wizards of the Coast coming at them from the other side.

However, I still give BG3 at least a 9/10. I love the game overall.

[✙205🍉🐆→]

All I need from an rpg 2024 is good graphics, a lot of details like in rdr2, a beard and hair that grows like in rdr2 or the witcher 3, combat like in dark souls if it's in 3rd person or first person better than it was in Dark Messiah of Might & Magic.
Then there are quests, I don't really care, but there should be consequences of the choice at least once.
The main character should be either a dummy like in Gothic or grow like in Fable.
Preferably, it should be Low fantasy.
There should be no choice of difficulty, the maximum is the choice of completing the game in one save.
If devs add something magical to Kingdom Come: Deliverance, it's 90% the rpg I want to see in 2024.
No penises, vaginas, or gender-neutral pubs.

P.S.

And who was the first to invent whispering while sneaking? BG3 developers or Expeditions: Rome developers?

[Woke Buster]

Originally posted by kbiz:

However, I still give BG3 at least a 9/10. I love the game overall.

Yeah, it's not terrible. If they had simply made another DOS: 3, I wouldn't be so picky, for example.

But since they chose to go this route, I just can't view it more positively, really. It has too many flaws and too little innovation to be a true successor to BG. And its status as GOTY only exacerbates the issue—other studios will start looking to emulate it, and I'm not sure that will be a good thing for future games.

The original BG series revolutionized the genre, but BG3 is just another good-looking cRPG that is somewhat average in many other aspects. I don't see a revolution at all.

[SlaughterWare]

bit much banning the bloke wasn't it?

not playing devils advocate, but easy on the trigger finger there mods. he was only expressing his opinion, and doing so (mostly) politely. Plus he's clearly a BG1&2 fan which means he's not trolling. This place will just be another boring echo-chamber if you boot out everyone that disagrees with the hivemind.

Perhaps it was for another post/comment I didn't see then, in which case, forget you read this.

[GriffinPilgrim]

Originally posted by EvilKris:

bit much banning the bloke wasn't it?

not playing devils advocate, but easy on the trigger finger there mods. he was only expressing his opinion, and doing so (mostly) politely. Plus he's clearly a BG1&2 fan which means he's not trolling. This place will just be another boring echo-chamber if you boot out everyone that disagrees with the hivemind.

Perhaps it was for another post/comment I didn't see then, in which case, forget you read this.

I doubt he got banned for this thread. That user has a habit of posting very hateful comments. Anti LGBT, the usual.