How do you play a rogue effectively?

[Space Cowboy]

I'm lvl 5 so far with a 4 lvls of thief and 1 lvl of ranger. This time I'm following a levelling guide but I still have the same issue as I had on my first run with Asterion - the rogue just lags behind everyone else.

Laezel, Karlach, Gale, Wyll and basically everyone else except my main Character and Asterion (and Shadowheart - but she's a supporter and can also summon flying weapons) churns massive damage already while my rogues deal a dinky 9 damage when they're lucky. I got my rogue equipped with a long Sword and a Dagger atm.

I barely get the chance to pull off sneak attacks cause I can't reliably get an "advantage" during battles. High ground doesn't seem to matter and sneaking just barely works even when I'm supposedly out of sight. So, how do you play rogues effectively at all? My rogues pretty nice outside of combat but there's gotta be *some* way to make them work in combat as well. Any tips?

[id795078477]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Space Cowboy:

I'm lvl 5 so far with a 4 lvls of thief and 1 lvl of ranger. This time I'm I got my rogue equipped with a long Sword and a Dagger atm.

These are some weird choices to be honest.

1. Why using a non-finesse weapon? You want to go for a weapon that gets attack bonus and damage bonus from dexterity

2. Why build it around melee at all? Go for dual x-bows, abuse that high-ground advantage to get your sneak attacks

3. Why go into ranger so early (if at all)? If you want early multi-class, Rogue (Thief) [3] / Fighter [2] would be a much better choice - at least you'll get the dual-wielding fighting style so that your off-hand will get the DEX bonus + you'll get the action surge. + you'll get another free bonus action.

[Sir Fed Dump]

Dual-Wield finesse weapons for melee, Hand Crossbows for ranged. Thief sub-class, @ Lvl 3, gets Fast Hands, (2nd bonus attack), that pairs well with dual-wielding, & will increase your damage dealt.

[Lani]

Once in combat, in order to melee Sneak Attack against an opponent all you need is you to have an ally within 5ft of your target to distract them. Oh and don't have Disadvantage.
So in your grouping, anyone fighting Lae'Zell can be back-stabbed.

This is in addition to regular Advantage caused by them being: Restrained, Prone, Sleeping, Entangled, Paralysed, Off balance, Enwebbed, Blinded. All sorts of conditions you can apply through various means.

Sneak attacks out of combat, best to set them up in turn based mode.

[AokiYakumo]

The easy answer? Stick to finesse weapons, stay by a buddy. Sneak Attack also procs if you don't have disadvantage and a friendly is threatening the target you want dead.

The more complex answer? ROGs benefit from crit-fishing almost as much as PLDs do. Give them gear that boosts their CRIT Rate (KotUK, Bloodthirst, Covert Cowl, Deadshot, Sarevok's Horned Helm if it's a ROG/RNG multiclass). Then, make sure they stay away from the active fight, while in stealth, and have them pick off weakened targets. If you're clever enough, they'll never be in initiative and will still output tons and tons of DPS.

If you want alternatives? Thieves get 2 Bonus Actions, so making them a dual wielder is a great itemization of action economy. 3 attacks per turn even without Sneak Attack can still net 3d6+12 by 4th level, which is not bad DPR. Arcane Tricksters actually make great control casters and make effective use of scrolls and illithid powers thanks to higher level features imposing save disadvantage while hidden.

Also, watch sight lines. If you're having trouble sneaking, it's probably because you're not obscured enough and wandered into a sight line. Invisibility helps a lot with this, so invis potions/scrolls, Deathstalker Mantle, etc., all make hiding much easier.

Hope this helps.

[Ozius]

There is a finesse longsword. Can't remember the name.

[Govi]

I sometimes set up my team in a quiet dark place and then do one attack to get their attention then lure them into the ground I’ve chosen

Oh and hide at the end of each turn with your bonus action to give a chance at a sneak attack

[AokiYakumo]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ozius:

There is a finesse longsword. Can't remember the name.

Actually, there's two. First is Phalar Aluve, one of the best support swords in the game. Second is Larethian's Wrath.

Personally, though, getting KotUK and any other finesse weapon ends up better overall thanks to the CRIT Rate buff. Bonus points if it's something like Thorn Blade that has a damage rider attached.

[Space Cowboy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh id795078477:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Space Cowboy:

I'm lvl 5 so far with a 4 lvls of thief and 1 lvl of ranger. This time I'm I got my rogue equipped with a long Sword and a Dagger atm.

These are some weird choices to be honest.

1. Why using a non-finesse weapon? You want to go for a weapon that gets attack bonus and damage bonus from dexterity

2. Why build it around melee at all? Go for dual x-bows, abuse that high-ground advantage to get your sneak attacks

3. Why go into ranger so early (if at all)? If you want early multi-class, Rogue (Thief) [3] / Fighter [2] would be a much better choice - at least you'll get the dual-wielding fighting style so that your off-hand will get the DEX bonus + you'll get the action surge. + you'll get another free bonus action.

I don't know - I'm not very familiar with D&D as a system. I just came from Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader and that one was super easy to grasp cause it is very clearly layed out what everything does and the system is build around the game while this game is build around an existing system. Not quite sure how I'm supposed to learn this - the tooltips only seem to provide half the information I'd need to be good at this game. Despite having the tutorial on again I didn't even know that there are finess weapons. I'm sure it's somewhere burried in the interface but it is not really clearly layed out or structured in a way I can easily see how the system works.

[AokiYakumo]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Space Cowboy:

Diposting pertama kali oleh id795078477:

These are some weird choices to be honest.

1. Why using a non-finesse weapon? You want to go for a weapon that gets attack bonus and damage bonus from dexterity

2. Why build it around melee at all? Go for dual x-bows, abuse that high-ground advantage to get your sneak attacks

3. Why go into ranger so early (if at all)? If you want early multi-class, Rogue (Thief) [3] / Fighter [2] would be a much better choice - at least you'll get the dual-wielding fighting style so that your off-hand will get the DEX bonus + you'll get the action surge. + you'll get another free bonus action.

I don't know - I'm not very familiar with D&D as a system. I just came from Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader and that one was super easy to grasp cause it is very clearly layed out what everything does and the system is build around the game while this game is build around an existing system. Not quite sure how I'm supposed to learn this - the tooltips only seem to provide half the information I'd need to be good at this game. Despite having the tutorial on again I didn't even know that there are finess weapons. I'm sure it's somewhere burried in the interface but it is not really clearly layed out or structured in a way I can easily see how the system works.

Easy.

If you check any weapon, at the bottom right it will list any properties that weapon has.

It'll say something like "Versatile, Light, Reach" or whatever.

If it says Finesse in that section, then the weapon's a Finesse weapon and can use DEX in place of STR for attack/damage. More importantly, it will allow ROGs to use Sneak Attack with that weapon.

[Space Cowboy]

I'm actually using Phalar Aluve right now, so I guess I used a finess weapon after all without realizing it.

[Ozius]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Space Cowboy:

I'm actually using Phalar Aluve right now, so I guess I used a finess weapon after all without realizing it.

Maybe your subconscious knew what it was doing.

[Govi]

But then that raises again why it’s not working for you

[Angry Obnoxious Goose]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Space Cowboy:

Diposting pertama kali oleh id795078477:

These are some weird choices to be honest.

1. Why using a non-finesse weapon? You want to go for a weapon that gets attack bonus and damage bonus from dexterity

2. Why build it around melee at all? Go for dual x-bows, abuse that high-ground advantage to get your sneak attacks

3. Why go into ranger so early (if at all)? If you want early multi-class, Rogue (Thief) [3] / Fighter [2] would be a much better choice - at least you'll get the dual-wielding fighting style so that your off-hand will get the DEX bonus + you'll get the action surge. + you'll get another free bonus action.

I don't know - I'm not very familiar with D&D as a system. I just came from Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader and that one was super easy to grasp cause it is very clearly layed out what everything does and the system is build around the game while this game is build around an existing system. Not quite sure how I'm supposed to learn this - the tooltips only seem to provide half the information I'd need to be good at this game. Despite having the tutorial on again I didn't even know that there are finess weapons. I'm sure it's somewhere burried in the interface but it is not really clearly layed out or structured in a way I can easily see how the system works.

Well actually Rogue Trader (the videogame) runs on a lite-version of the 40k Rogue Trader Tabletop RPG ruleset. Just severely slimmed down.

[Ozius]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Govi:

But then that raises again why it’s not working for you

I have found that to get a hard-hitting rogue, it's generally best to go the assassin route.

[AokiYakumo]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Govi:

But then that raises again why it’s not working for you

Brings us back to my original points.

Basically, ROG's a high skill ceiling class. Played right they are OPPRESSIVE in a fight. Misplay, and the cracks start showing.

I actually got my highest single instance of damage from a straight-classed Thief who used Branding Amulet, Hunting Bow, and a Sneak Attack on a crit to deliver 136 damage straight to the face of a Mind Flayer killing it outright.