Best feat for your spells DC ?

[Kie Mugen]

Hello, is it just +2 ability score? Or maybe some multiclassing gives you the bonus? I have 16 wis and I barely see enemies failing saving throw (honor mode)

[Metallicus]

I prefer buffing spells over spells that give saving throws to my enemies.

[Izuzul]

Best stuff for DC is from gear. Staffs, Robes, Headgear can all boost spell DC. Also things like Mental Fatigue and Reverberation that you can apply to enemies to decrease the odds of them passing a save can make a big difference.

[northernwater]

What class? What act?

The only feat which will increase Spell Save DC is an ability related feat, but there are other more important ways to increase your Spell Save DC. I always use at least one feat on my casters to increase their spell ability to 18.

I never multiclass, but that said ... Multiclassing usually reduces the number of feats you can access. So it tends to work against increasing your Spell Save DC. Multiclassing is always about trying to grab a few coveted class features, and not about Spell Save DC.

[AokiYakumo]

Maxing your casting stat (20 for most stats, 22 if you have Birthright and use CHA) typically is the way to go for most dedicated casters.

Beyond that, look for gear that improves Save DC. Melf's First Staff is a good place to start.

If you're early in the game, you're gonna see a lot of spell saves, mainly due to how bounded accuracy works. It's less a matter of enemy strength and more a matter of ability targeting (be mindful of what stats the enemies are good at saving with). I'll be frank, for non-dedicated casters, 16 in a casting stat is usually enough, mostly because you can augment it in other ways or just straight up circumvent it entirely (Cloud of Daggers, Spike Growth, Bless, that sort of thing).

Late game, you're gonna be swimming in gear that buffs Save DCs, and you'll have a base DC of 12 before ability modifiers, so 16 in a casting stat is DC 15, and if you have a +1 from a weapon and a +1 from your armor, that's DC 17. DC 17 is pretty good.

[Hobocop]

Either ASIs or Dual Wielder so you can hold two weapons that buff your spell save DCs.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Metallicus:

I prefer buffing spells over spells that give saving throws to my enemies.

Spells which debuff an enemy are the same as buffing your allies.

A perfect example is Hold Person, or Hold Monster ... an up cast Hold Person can lock down 4 enemy characters. Then you send in Bamm-Bamm for guaranteed crits. Meanwhile your caster holding concentration on the hold spells sends up cast magic missiles across the battle field in support - with reverberation and lightening charges of course.

Very effective.

[id795078477]

5e is generally bad when it comes to building casters, especially around saves. There just no feats like there were in 3e/3.5e to up that DC. Equipment that gives DC boost is rare and you'll start getting it mid to late game.

The correct hint was given above - casters are better off left as supports. Your casters is usually a haste-bot (or whatever other "best concentration spell" you happen to have at the time) with some occasional splashes of damage. It's sad, but it's just what it is especially on HM - you don't bet your combat on those fiddly saves that you know you have largely no control over.

Originally posted by northernwater:

Originally posted by Metallicus:

I prefer buffing spells over spells that give saving throws to my enemies.

Spells which debuff an enemy are the same as buffing your allies.

A perfect example is Hold Person, or Hold Monster ... an up cast Hold Person can lock down 4 enemy characters. Then you send in Bamm-Bamm for guaranteed crits. Meanwhile your caster holding concentration on the hold spells sends up cast magic missiles across the battle field in support - with reverberation and lightening charges of course.

Very effective.

Not really. Hasting your allies is much better, because:

-- Your hasted ally will get better freedom of choice on what to do even if on paper it's "same damage" (because crit vs an additional action)
-- Crits will only be worth it when you don't have a lot of flat numbers damage. Unless it's a pally, mid-to end game most of the damage will come from flat modifiers. Stuff like GWM, STR modifier (or double of that with gianslayer), elemental equip etc - all of it will not benefit from crits at all
-- You don't risk enemies rolling those saves at all
-- You can stay back or potentially even out of combat with that caster concentrating haste to minimize chances of concentration break due to attackers hitting him

[AokiYakumo]

Originally posted by northernwater:

Originally posted by Metallicus:

I prefer buffing spells over spells that give saving throws to my enemies.

Spells which debuff an enemy are the same as buffing your allies.

A perfect example is Hold Person, or Hold Monster ... an up cast Hold Person can lock down 4 enemy characters. Then you send in Bamm-Bamm for guaranteed crits. Meanwhile your caster holding concentration on the hold spells sends up cast magic missiles across the battle field in support - with reverberation and lightening charges of course.

Very effective.

Oh no. Better:

Pick up Create Water. Not only is it cantrip-castable, but it doubles Cold/Lightning damage, pretty reliably, with no save.

Same caster can hold Sanctuary and Bless, and while Sanctuary is up, NOT BREAK IT by spamming Create Water and the occasional heal.

Now, even if your blaster scuffs a Lightning Bolt, that Lightning Bolt still ends up doing full damage regardless, but failed saves can do the big peepee damage.

[Izuzul]

Can Stack Arcane Acuity to 10 pretty easy on a sword bard. +10 to DC's never hurt. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3153440287

[northernwater]

Originally posted by id795078477:

The correct hint was given above - casters are better off left as supports. Your casters is usually a haste-bot

In 2 tactician and 1 honor mode run I have cast haste about two times. Haste potions I find to be far more effective, while the caster spends his time incapacitating the enemy.

[id795078477]

Originally posted by northernwater:

Originally posted by id795078477:

The correct hint was given above - casters are better off left as supports. Your casters is usually a haste-bot

In 2 tactician and 1 honor mode run I have cast haste about two times. Haste potions I find to be far more effective, while the caster spends his time incapacitating the enemy.

Well.. you doing it and getting away with it doesn't mean it's optimal. See above why. Haste beats "incapacitation" mid to late game all the times.

[AokiYakumo]

Originally posted by northernwater:

Originally posted by id795078477:

The correct hint was given above - casters are better off left as supports. Your casters is usually a haste-bot

In 2 tactician and 1 honor mode run I have cast haste about two times. Haste potions I find to be far more effective, while the caster spends his time incapacitating the enemy.

I mean, they're still Supports at the end of the day.

Whether it's gigabuffing your beatdown with Haste; or harassing half the battlefield with Hunger of Hadar + Plant Growth; or putting Bless up, then hiding in Sanctuary as you make the battlefield Wet with Create Water; or - hell - even just throwing up Crusader's Mantle while your team of 6 minions goes ham with action economy.

You're still supporting your team.

[Izuzul]

Originally posted by northernwater:

Originally posted by id795078477:

The correct hint was given above - casters are better off left as supports. Your casters is usually a haste-bot

In 2 tactician and 1 honor mode run I have cast haste about two times. Haste potions I find to be far more effective, while the caster spends his time incapacitating the enemy.

You can also "Twin Cast" your potions by standing as close as possible and throwing it in the middle, can hit up to 4 party members if they are positioned correctly.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by id795078477:

Originally posted by northernwater:

In 2 tactician and 1 honor mode run I have cast haste about two times. Haste potions I find to be far more effective, while the caster spends his time incapacitating the enemy.

Well.. you doing it and getting away with it doesn't mean it's optimal. See above why. Haste beats "incapacitation" mid to late game all the times.

How did you measure optimality?

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Reconciler:

Originally posted by northernwater:

In 2 tactician and 1 honor mode run I have cast haste about two times. Haste potions I find to be far more effective, while the caster spends his time incapacitating the enemy.

You can also "Twin Cast" your potions by standing as close as possible and throwing it in the middle, can hit up to 4 party members if they are positioned correctly.

Good to know, but the number of potions has never been a problem for me.