Human's are weak

[Callirgos]

There is no concrete reason to choose human. The're just a gimped version of 1/2 elf. The extra proficiency isn't enough. I'd advocate taking away the extra weapon/armor proficiency from half elves. OR just give humans a real stat bonus.

[kbiz]

Races are balanced. Welcome to the world of balance! There are fairly equal trade-offs between all races. And all classes.

Personally, I want Darkvision and +5 movement.

[ᛈᚢᛒᚲᚱᚨᛚᚱ13]

Publicado originalmente por His Divine Shadow:

Publicado originalmente por pubcrawler13:

That makes sense, and like I said, I might just not fully understand what it means, because I always play games my own way. My understanding was always that it means focusing on one particular skill at the expense of all the rest.

its more than just one skill. It’s making the most optimal character for a specific role which generally requires you picking stats and abilities that don’t make any sense from a roleplay perspective

I understand. It's an interesting conversation actually, and I freely admit that my understanding of the term is somewhat tainted by having played old-school D&D pretty much since it was created, when things were more, eh, "simplified," I guess. While fully acknowledging that times have changed, there was a time where if you wanted a melee character, you naturally gravitated towards races with more physical strength (dwarf, etc), and you just built around that.

Definitely not saying it was better back then, by any means... more freedom/options = better experience.

[His Divine Shadow]

Publicado originalmente por pubcrawler13:

Publicado originalmente por His Divine Shadow:

its more than just one skill. It’s making the most optimal character for a specific role which generally requires you picking stats and abilities that don’t make any sense from a roleplay perspective

I understand. It's an interesting conversation actually, and I freely admit that my understanding of the term is somewhat tainted by having played old-school D&D pretty much since it was created, when things were more, eh, "simplified," I guess. While fully acknowledging that times have changed, there was a time where if you wanted a melee character, you naturally gravitated towards races with more physical strength (dwarf, etc), and you just built around that.

Definitely not saying it was better back then, by any means... more freedom/options = better experience.

Yeah and it’s absolutely fine to play to racial strengths when picking a class and vice versa. It’s just taking it to the extreme of extremes that’s frowned upon.

[ahsanford]

I can't come up with the best search to prove this, but it sure seems like the ratio of threads of folks 'specifically bummed that my human hero self isn't the bestest class' vs. 'I'm an eight mile deep 5e lover and BG3's racial bonuses in general just aren't quite 5e by-the-book' seems like quite lopsided for the former.

In effect: a lot of dudes wish their hero selves were human but are hung up on BG3 implying that humans are not 'best'.

I honestly find that telling.

- A

[ᛈᚢᛒᚲᚱᚨᛚᚱ13]

Publicado originalmente por His Divine Shadow:

Publicado originalmente por pubcrawler13:

I understand. It's an interesting conversation actually, and I freely admit that my understanding of the term is somewhat tainted by having played old-school D&D pretty much since it was created, when things were more, eh, "simplified," I guess. While fully acknowledging that times have changed, there was a time where if you wanted a melee character, you naturally gravitated towards races with more physical strength (dwarf, etc), and you just built around that.

Definitely not saying it was better back then, by any means... more freedom/options = better experience.

Yeah and it’s absolutely fine to play to racial strengths when picking a class and vice versa. It’s just taking it to the extreme of extremes that’s frowned upon.

Appreciate it! As I thought, I just didn't full understand what the term meant.

[ahsanford]

Publicado originalmente por His Divine Shadow:

Yeah and it’s absolutely fine to play to racial strengths when picking a class and vice versa. It’s just taking it to the extreme of extremes that’s frowned upon.

+1.

It's the saying 'I am so miffed I can't realize the perfect human hero I see myself as that I want to nerf other races' is what chafes here.

- A

[ᛈᚢᛒᚲᚱᚨᛚᚱ13]

Publicado originalmente por ahsanford:

Publicado originalmente por His Divine Shadow:

Yeah and it’s absolutely fine to play to racial strengths when picking a class and vice versa. It’s just taking it to the extreme of extremes that’s frowned upon.

+1.

It's the saying 'I am so miffed I can't realize the perfect human hero I see myself as that I want to nerf other races' is what chafes here.

- A

Agreed, that's a ridiculous and reductive attitude.

[Pyromaiden]

Publicado originalmente por ahsanford:

Publicado originalmente por His Divine Shadow:

Yeah and it’s absolutely fine to play to racial strengths when picking a class and vice versa. It’s just taking it to the extreme of extremes that’s frowned upon.

+1.

It's the saying 'I am so miffed I can't realize the perfect human hero I see myself as that I want to nerf other races' is what chafes here.

- A

the fragility of human ego is simply further proof of tiefling superiority

they shall inherit toril

[Roughly the size of a MO-ROOON]

They also have a very, very distinct lack of unique interactions. Which, considering how few and far between they even get after Act 1, is telling.

[Aldain]

Honestly the biggest problem with Larian's custom Human is that the Proficiency options don't line up like other races do.

Light Armor, Shields and Polearms...Polearms are 2 handed weapons so shield's are pointless for that and they also run off Strength so the Light Armor is moot since most classes that would want Polearms already have light or medium armor access or would rather not wear armor in the first place.

At best you get Light Armor and Shields on a Sorcerer or Wizard, Shields on a Warlock or Bard (technically Rogue too but that's not a slam dunk) and none of those classes want to be frontlining with a Polearm in Light Armor except MAYBE a Blade Pact Warlock.

...Nevermind that Half Elves get all the same benefits on top of their subrace benefit, which leaves Humans with...one free Skill and 25 Carry Capacity in a game where you have an infinite camp storage you can send things straight to.

Humans pretty much get nothing of real value, it isn't even a min-max thing, they are strictly inferior options to every other race due to not getting anything worthwhile.

[Pyromaiden]

Publicado originalmente por Aldain:

Polearms are 2 handed weapons

me when i forget spears and quarterstaffs are polearms

[Aldain]

Publicado originalmente por Pyromania™:

me when i forget spears and quarterstaffs are polearms

...They're also simple weapons but Quarterstaffs are actually not one of the weapons Humans give (though I do often forget that both are Versatile) but the rest of my points still mostly stand.

Even though Spears are one handed, they run off of Strength, while Light Armor runs off Dex, trying to use both is a bad idea, and aside from Monk and Blade Warlock (which can sub out that Strength stat use) it creates an issue of "You probably already could use Polearms anyway if you wanted to" in terms of class choices, assuming you even want to be anywhere near the enemies in the first place.

And again, Half Elves get the same benefits and more on top of them so it's even more hilariously outclassed because of that.

[JustSmile]

Publicado originalmente por ChuckyDontCare:

Shields!!!! Extra carry. New rules are kinda wonky, but Humans have never been awesome.

In 3.5 they get an extra feat, which automatically makes them the best for everything, if boring.

[Joker]

in DnD humans can pick variant human version which can pick feat at lvl 1, I don't know why chinese sellouts did not included this version for humans either way humans are still great they can wield shields which is super great in early game that 2+ AC and extra profession is handy as well. Lack of darkvision is not a huge problem which can be easily solved.

[Joker]

Publicado originalmente por Aldain:

Publicado originalmente por Pyromania™:

me when i forget spears and quarterstaffs are polearms

...They're also simple weapons but Quarterstaffs are actually not one of the weapons Humans give (though I do often forget that both are Versatile) but the rest of my points still mostly stand.

Even though Spears are one handed, they run off of Strength, while Light Armor runs off Dex, trying to use both is a bad idea, and aside from Monk and Blade Warlock (which can sub out that Strength stat use) it creates an issue of "You probably already could use Polearms anyway if you wanted to" in terms of class choices, assuming you even want to be anywhere near the enemies in the first place.

And again, Half Elves get the same benefits and more on top of them so it's even more hilariously outclassed because of that.

Strength isn't issue when you can easily farm super early in game pots of giants strength that sets your strength at 21 until long rest, half elves don't get the extra profession and darkvision easily gets fixed by camp casting.