Let’s Analyze Baldur’s Gate 3 as a game!

[Mister Magician]

This forum is begging desperately for something it has never seen before: an on-topic post of Substance.

To do this I want to do something I have been planning off an on for about a month or two now.  I will do an old school text let’s play-style review, a la the original “let’s plays” from the something awful forums.  It’s been years since the last time I have seen one so why not, plus there has to at least be one worthwhile thread on this forum.  Basically this will be some kind of vonnegut-esque, stream-of-consciousness, deep-dive travelogue of the game as I experience it.  Feel free to give recommendations on what I should focus on or do next during my play-through, and I will write down my thoughts as they come.

What’s my goal?  To give an honest appraisal of the game in specific detail while seeing past the fluff to determine what this game actually is as a game.

Why?  It’s hard to tell if this game is actually a quality game-as-game because it seems both the defenders and detractors view the game as a proxy for other things.  It is not one bit clear if the game is liked by certain people because it’s a good game that just so happens to “represent” their belief system, or if the game is simply a means to an end to show triumphalist allegiance to said belief system.  In other words, no one (not even the developers) seem to even act like this is a game instead of some kind of mix of a big tent evangelical experience mixed with a cultural battlefront.

But what if I did something radical and treated baldur’s gate 3 as a video game?  Shocking I know.

What is my methodology?  I will ignore all the elements that have nothing to do with the game as a game.  No extraneous “sexual” agendas will be given any thought or heed, just treating this as if it was a game made before “current year” that did not have to pay fealty.  I will go into agendas being pushed by the game that have nothing to do with “sexual” issues though, as that gets to the core of the message trying to be conveyed by the story-as-a-story.  With this I Hope to get behind the noise to test the quality of the game-as-a-game as if it was made in any climate other than the 2023 greater american empire.

With that said, let’s get to it.

I will put the dairy of my experiences in separate posts that I will link back to here in categories, but will still reply/discuss normally as needed.  If you have a suggestion on how to build my character or where to go / what to focus on, you should let me know. I will try to discuss important gameplay, narrative movements, and moments in the game in separate posts with titles and you can click them from this

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TABLE OF CONTENTS

History / Hypothesis:

1. What is dnd? (A1)
   
2. What is my reasoning and hypothesis? (A2)
   
3. Why is baldur’s gate 3 like this? (A3)
   
4. What happened to wizard’s of the coast? (A4)
   
5. What happened to dnd? (A5)

Menus / Character creator:

1. Title Screen and Settings (B1)
   
2. Mode Select and Character Creator (B2)

Act 1:

1. Waking up in the reference to Jules Verne (C1)
   
2. When does the "game of the year" part begin? (C2)
   
3. Well, it could be worse. (C3)
   
4. The cracks show, what's underneath? (C4)
   
5. auntie ethel and the conundrum that is baldur's gate 3 (C5)
   
6. Some additional thoughts before I continue. (C6)
   
7. Onwards and upwards (I Hope) (C7)
   
8. An update (C8)

More Soon™

Act 2:

Less Soon™

Act 3:

Could be Soon™

Ending(s) / Conclusions:

Eventually, but probably not Soon™

Note:

I will have to figure out how this should be structured as I don't want a post that is 50 pages long, but as a reader I would suggest to come along for the ride and take things as they come instead of trying to start trouble and sneer "mucho texto" to cover up illiteracy.  Mercifully the steam forums has a url / reference system so I can make words into clickable links.  I think a link system plus a searchable name system (which will also make referencing previous posts easy for everyon) is best; I will make titles clickable urls and have a N1, N2, N3, ... NX system for the searchable reference names.  Should this thread get nuked, I'll just make a wordpress / substack blog and continue there uncensored if needed.  I think that should be everything.

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Let's start with something of Substance.

What is dnd?

(A1)

dnd was born of of a hero-based twist on old-school wargaming called "Chainmail," which was created by Gary Gygax and Jeff Perren in 1971. Gygax would visit Perren's hobby shop to play wargames in his free time, and the two decided to one day make their own based on their conversations about what wargames were missing.

Chainmail differentiated itself from the typical ww1 / ww2 / us civil war / waterloo / etc. wargame formats that normal middle aged men of the early 20th century played, all by focusing on a loose medieval setting and introduced multi-faction, hero-based armies. Instead of gamifying wars of the past using recent-ish weapons as a basis, you could play Historical armies against each other. William Wallace and the Scots vs Julius Ceasar and the Romans? Why not? Over time, people would release factions trying to push the envelope, like an army of Helms Deep Humans led by Gandalf vs a team of Detective Comics superheroes. Eventually people would homebrew their own heroes and the game of Chainmail quickly moved from a wargame with special units a la Warcraft 3 to superpowered player units with minion distractions a la DOTA. I find it interesting how the rts, into hero rts, into moba evolution happened in video games just like it happened with tabletop wargaming decades years earlier.

What changed is when a university student named Dave Arneson met Gary Gygax and offered to have a fantasy role playing system (now known as "Blackmoor") published by one of Gary Gygax' gaming publishers. The two hit it off and kept bouncing ideas off of each other for years on how to merge the hero-based tactical gameplay of Chainmail with the revolutionary role playing ruleset of Blackmoor.

Gygax and Arneson noted how players of Chainmail only cared about the hero units, and so decided why not just remove the armies and have people role play the heroes directly. Battles would play out like Chainmail with miniatures, and the rest of the game would be speech-based role-playing like Blackmoor. This lead to the first edition of dnd in 1974, but didn't get taken seriously by its developers as their "next big thing" until adnd in 1977; the reason for the sudden change was that the original 1974 release of dnd had players perform real life spells with reagents and everything that Gygax took from a book of shadows he innocently requisitioned from the satanic temple. This was fixed in the "advanced" reimagining to just be dice rolls, but the controversy stuck long after the accidental satanism was removed from dnd which helped dnd become a household name worldwide.

Gygax and Arneson were both lifelong dedicated Christians and based their entire new world on clear delineations between Good and evil, Law and chaos, which is why alignment is the first and most core attribute of the game.

The world was heavily based by Gygax' day job as an actuary. An actuary is an accountant, statistician hybrid who usually determine life expectancy for the medical field and census-taking, as well as determining the monetary value of a person's life for insurance and legal purposes. Gygax loved wargames because he knew that while people could be reduced to statistics for easier cataloging, each person had their own inherent Value and Story. This leads to what dnd fans have called "gygaxian naturalism," or the idea that if real people could be dehumanized into statistics then just random units on a wargame board could be Humanized using the reverse. Every inch of the dnd experience is both math and narrative, everything you can dream of concerning people can be reduced to numbers and dice rolls and every calculation and roll of the dice can then be turned into a Human story.

This rocksteady rejection of relativism and voluntarism, and this "all is accounted for" system of story into math back into story again, is why dnd has captured so many people for 5 decades and they can't let go.

[8Squirrels]

Цитата допису Bray of Cats:

I find the golden calfing and the conflation of The Prophet Yeshua, very heretical.

That's some good ♥♥♥♥♥♥ food right there

[Bray of Cats]

Цитата допису 6sheep:

Цитата допису Bray of Cats:

I find the golden calfing and the conflation of The Prophet Yeshua, very heretical.

That's some good ♥♥♥♥♥♥ food right there :lunar2019crylaughingpig:

Not sure what you are saying about my strongly held beliefs here?

[8Squirrels]

So you gonna eat that golden calf or what

[zero]

Цитата допису 6sheep:

So you gonna eat that golden calf or what

is it edible gold or?

[Tanist]

Nice write up, there was even a bit of detail on the history that I wasn't complete on.

[8Squirrels]

Цитата допису zero:

Цитата допису 6sheep:

So you gonna eat that golden calf or what

is it edible gold or?

It better be or Moses is gonna be pissed!

[Tanist]

Цитата допису Mister Magician:

Anyone who played dnd in the early 90’s remembers a shift in the nerd culture.  Gone were the days of a mathematician, architect, engineer, doctor, and patent attorney who met in freshman calculus in university, and bonded over communal games like dnd and so played these games well into their adult Married lives just to keep in touch with friends.  Eventually this was not a sustainable community, which caused Richard Garfield to create magic the gathering in 1993 as a side-game of dnd to be played by these aging nerds who didn't have time to play offical dnd anymore This eventualy revitalized the community by normalizing random meetups and pickup games in comic shops and the like in the 1990's. That magic released as a game not affiliated with dnd is a result of a wotc marketer named mark rosewater (who was later promoted to lead designer), who also came up with the idea of selling cards in booster packs like baseball cards. Garfield wanted every card to be released in the starter set/expansions like dnd did with sourcebooks, and like Garfield would eventually do with Netrunner before wotc shut it down with lawsuits TWICE.

I would say this was my experience exactly, and this was my complaint in gaming as well. Most of the people I played with were all professionals, very established fields and professions. Our games were often focused on all of the elements of physics, statistics of occurrence, etc.. while some people liked to "play the role", most of my experiences were more akin to a board game style, focusing on the consistent obstacles to which we had to think our way past them, using the limitations of our characters and rules to succeed.

Over the years, I noticed those getting into the games were... well... not even people I could relate to. They were often childish, intellectually dismissive (ie rules don't matter, my fun in play does), sexually immature and focused, etc... It made it to the point where when my old friends fell out of way due to life, I made no effort to seek more to play with (and my friends had similar experiences who moved).

This also I noticed with the MMO games. Early ones, you tend to have similar people of interest, but as they became popular, the average player was exactly as I described. I

Its unfortunate, but much damage has been done to the very systems to which many of those immature types used to "tease" people for playing in the first place.

The one thing that was very consistent though, was the constant focus on sex rather than gaming.

[Quillithe]

Цитата допису Mister Magician:

A majority the most intelligent people who made every inch of the foundation you constantly chip away at were Virgins. Family men tend to be very philosophical and are regular writers.

I mean, whatever floats your boat, but most family men have had sex at least once for pretty clear reasons.

[Altimely]

Цитата допису Mister Magician:

I did not.

Yes you do. I already pointed them out and you conveniently ignored them.

Цитата допису Altimely:

The decline for puritans and the authoritarian-minded, maybe, which is a win for society as a whole. Go find another hobby or create something of your own.

Цитата допису Mister Magician:

you can't even keep bridges up or planes in the sky.

We Created this one, along with everything else you now try to conquer for your religion.

your views are also 1:1 that of the real life puritains.

No you didn't. you haven't created anything, all you do is take credit for something your ancestors didn't do. And your ancestors stood on the backs of the people who actually built the world. You claim bridges and planes are falling: that is happening while puritans are gaining control. Nice self-own. It's always a projection.

[zero]

bold claim to claim the church created everything when most things are predominately created by individuals with no connection to your specific religion.

[Altimely]

Цитата допису Mister Magician:

Цитата допису Altimely:

Yes you do. I already pointed them out and you conveniently ignored them.




No you didn't. you haven't created anything, all you do is take credit for something your ancestors didn't do. And your ancestors stood on the backs of the people who actually built the world. You claim bridges and planes are falling: that is happening while puritans are gaining control. Nice self-own. It's always a projection.

I have answered everything, you simply ignored the answer and waited 9 pages to claim I didn't.

The Church Created everything you know, don't know, and take for granted. Which is everything. you cannot have one slight iota of it outside of Her.

People you hate so created dnd and sustain it, you simply laid claim to it while ruining what little is left of it.

Two separate points, but the message is the same: what you claim for your religion cannot be maintained by your religion, and least of all by you.

you are a literal puritan (gnostic).

projecting your projection is the second to last step your kind has before you deny there was ever a conversation and disengage.

I know this thread threatens you because scrutiny exposes everything about you that your bullying seeks to hide, but your presence here as a troll is neither wanted or helpful.

No you didn't. The receipt is in the thread, lad, you can find it and read it if you're not feeling as cowardly as the first time I posted it and you ignored it.

And the narcissistic conceit of the church to think it created everything everyone knows when in reality: it steals, co-opts, and twists customs of other people because it can't create anything and neither can its flock of sheep.

[Altimely]

You don't know! Only me and my belief knows!

Narcissism.

[zero]

Цитата допису Mister Magician:

Цитата допису zero:

bold claim to claim the church created everything when most things are predominately created by individuals with no connection to your specific religion.

you have no idea where anything comes from, to what ends, and what the purpose was; let alone what day it is or what would happen if you didn't eat breakfast yesterday. you are not capable of discussing this topic. you are simply trying to derail. this is one of the few things you actually do know in the darkened soup in which you reside.

you react, you go through a set of pre-memorized phrases. you don't know what you are attacking or what you are saying, you just follow your orders.

i do actually, you see we have this thing called recorded history in which we have recorded who made what.

for example: the wright brothers created the airplane, elisha graved otis invented the elevator, heron invented the first fountain.

see how that works?

also: i do know what happens if i didn't eat breakfast yesterday, and it would be the exact same thing that happened, cause i didn't eat breakfast yesterday.

if you invented yourself some logic you wouldn't use what ifs that are that easy to occur.

[zero]

Цитата допису Mister Magician:

Цитата допису Altimely:

No you didn't. The receipt is in the thread, lad, you can find it and read it if you're not feeling as cowardly as the first time I posted it and you ignored it.

And the narcissistic conceit of the church to think it created everything everyone knows when in reality: it steals, co-opts, and twists customs of other people because it can't create anything and neither can its flock of sheep.

you have no access to Love, Absolute Truth, Natural Law outside of The Church; nor to Magisterium, Sacred Tradition, Scripture or Faith, Reason, Logic, or anything.

every single thing, top to bottom, left to right, front to back, comes from The Church and cannot exist outside of Her. See my previous post.

every inch turns to less than a pot of ash outside of Her, and each grain runs through your fingers leaving no residue. you know this, you dare not think about it as that would be dangerous considering your very strict religion, so you serve.

All of this is easily proven, but not by your approved sources.

Most easily by common sense an observation, which are two sources most forbidden to you.

except most things dont actually come from the church, see history as we know it

[Vvv]

Цитата допису Altimely:

Цитата допису Mister Magician:

I have answered everything, you simply ignored the answer and waited 9 pages to claim I didn't.

The Church Created everything you know, don't know, and take for granted. Which is everything. you cannot have one slight iota of it outside of Her.

People you hate so created dnd and sustain it, you simply laid claim to it while ruining what little is left of it.

Two separate points, but the message is the same: what you claim for your religion cannot be maintained by your religion, and least of all by you.

you are a literal puritan (gnostic).

projecting your projection is the second to last step your kind has before you deny there was ever a conversation and disengage.

I know this thread threatens you because scrutiny exposes everything about you that your bullying seeks to hide, but your presence here as a troll is neither wanted or helpful.

No you didn't. The receipt is in the thread, lad, you can find it and read it if you're not feeling as cowardly as the first time I posted it and you ignored it.

And the narcissistic conceit of the church to think it created everything everyone knows when in reality: it steals, co-opts, and twists customs of other people because it can't create anything and neither can its flock of sheep.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You could look up the oldest universities through Europe and you could easily notice they're all within places that were and are Catholic to this day.