Should I just make everyone a Warlock?

[Fried Noodles]

I've been trying to make Shadowheart into a competent party member...
I tried out a few different flavors of Cleric (Tempest, Light) but decided that I don't really like Cleric.

So as my party hit Lv.10, I decided to try specializing her as a Paladin instead. Seems close'ish enough to 'Cleric'.

I don't really understand the difference between Paladin and Cleric in D&D.
They look like they went to the same Catholic school.

I also don't really get Paladin. I have Minthara set up as a pure Lv.10 Paladin and she's... just okay.
At least in my hands.

I decided to make Shadowheart into a Lv.5 Paladin and Lv.5 Pact of the Blade Warlock.

This allowed me to save a ton of stat points by dropping her STR and DEX to 8... Because it doesn't matter if they have a Pact weapon, right?

I dumped most of her points into CHA and CON and then gave her an okay amount of INT/WIS.

I have her using a shield and a single handed weapon (currently the Blood of Lathandir mace thingie from the Creche)... and now all of a sudden she's an offensive monster.

She gets two doses of Extra Attack, one from Paladin and one from her Pact weapon. So she's out there swinging three times at enemies, dealing quite competent damage.

Would potentially be even better if I'd given her some great weapon.

Now I'm looking at Minthara and wondering what she's even getting out of being a Lv.10 Paladin.

Maybe I should switch Minthara to a 5 and 5 as well.


My Dark Urge / Tav is also a Lv.5 Pact of the Blade Warlock, but I can only swing twice because her other class is a Lv.5 Bard. She won't get her second Extra Attack until Lv.11.


It just seems really good.
And it's super easy to get good Attack and Damage while relying on only a single stat.

And Shadowheart also has Eldritch Blast in her pocket if I want her to do a bit of ranged.


I don't feel like she really loses much from her original setup.

Previously, the only thing she was ever good for was casting Bless on the party.
And she can still do that as a Paladin / Warlock.

[Pyromaiden]

I also don't really get Paladin. I have Minthara set up as a pure Lv.10 Paladin and she's... just okay.
At least in my hands.

this made me blink ngl

i remember recruiting minthara the first time and she was a total beast; just absolutely monstrous

it made me want to try a paladin tbh

[Karina]

Respec shadowheart to have 8 str, 14 dex, 16 con, 16 wis. She will be just fine as a cleric, even if you keep her in lore apropriate ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ domain. Light is very good but its kinda does not make sense before spoiler happens. Another option is to go 14 str and 8 dex and respect her to be a war cleric, which makes more sense then light.

Originally posted by Pyromania™:

I also don't really get Paladin. I have Minthara set up as a pure Lv.10 Paladin and she's... just okay.
At least in my hands.

this made me blink ngl

i remember recruiting minthara the first time and she was a total beast; just absolutely monstrous

it made me want to try a paladin tbh

I took 2 levels of paladin on a lore bard for proficiencies and smite, its insane how good it is.

[Flavalicious]

I mean....its your game lol :D

In hyper basic terms
A paladin is a fighter with some faith based spells and abilities.
A cleric is a faith based wizard with some fighter abilities.

Usually people have issues getting Shadowheart to be capable in combat because they dont notice her strength is hyper low, so her melee capabilities are pretty weak in a straight up fight until shes properly built. And then on the casting side they aren't checking enemy stats and seeing what they are working with for saves. Can't hold person/monster against something with 21 wisdom because odds are they will make the save and resist the effect. Where as your pact warlock/paladin you just spam attack and even if your being partially resisted, you can just plow through the HP anyways.

On Tactician mode I'd say a cleric is somewhat mandatory unless your looking to cheese or save scum like crazy lol. On normals or story telling you can clear the game doing just about anything lol

[The Met4l God]

Originally posted by Pyromania™:

I also don't really get Paladin. I have Minthara set up as a pure Lv.10 Paladin and she's... just okay.
At least in my hands.

this made me blink ngl

i remember recruiting minthara the first time and she was a total beast; just absolutely monstrous

it made me want to try a paladin tbh

I never even got to play her. I ended up killing her when I encountered her because I was enemies with the place she was in.

[ahsanford]

Give Minth the savage attacker feat and drop some L3 smites on people -- let me know if that changes your mind.

She dropped something like 80 points of damage on one swing of the weapon in the Cazador battle just now.

- A

[ahsanford]

Originally posted by Flavalicious:

I mean....its your game lol :D
On Tactician mode I'd say a cleric is somewhat mandatory unless your looking to cheese or save scum like crazy lol. On normals or story telling you can clear the game doing just about anything lol

I don't think I've ever rolled a pure cleric. On Tactician playthrough #3 now.

My main is an L1 Life Cleric / L11 Lore Bard. Other two members are a rotating pool of melee (1 pally, 2 battlemasters, 1 champion). Final slot is usually Gale, but I sometimes sub in Wyll or Jaheira (re-rolled as a Storm Sorc).

I miss the heroes' feast buff by benching a dedicated cleric, but the bard upside is staggering in comparison. I've never regretted that decision.

- A

[Cowardly Camper]

Clerics are useful but not essential. You can seriously toughen up your characters without them.

Warlocks are pretty mediocre except with very specific equipment builds, and that equipment you can only get one of. It mostly depends on triggering multiple damage modifiers with each Eldritch Blast beam.

Act 1 the best powerhouses are sorcerers. Double cast lightning bolt or fireball with draconic and erase enemies from the field, and elemental adept means almost none can resist. Level 6 draconic sorcerer damage output is average 70+ for the first round and can't miss, only be halved. Also, between draconic armor and shield spell, they are extremely difficult to hit and have a high survival.

A 5 5 paladin warlock is ok as far as multi attacks go since you get smite. This allows sustainable 3 attacks as long as you aren't playing honor mode. Other multi can still beat it, such as bard flourish fighter combo. And a tavern brawler monk will smoke it. Generally speaking, if your fight lasts more than 2 or 3 rounds, your build is mediocre.

The Phalar Aluve is a really good alternative to bless because it cannot be interrupted.

A paladin is a fighter class. A cleric is a combat spellcaster. Cleric sacrifices raw damage for being able to wear heavy armor, and their spells tend to be support style. A paladin's spells are pretty much just to make its melee weapons do more damage.

You are doing the bard wrong. College of swords slashing flourish allows attacking the same enemy twice with additional damage. You can stack up enormous first round damage.

[Pat Fenis]

Cleric is alright, tempest or light are good for reverb build to keep everything knocked on its ass and someone has to be using heroes' feast. It's that or a druid, lesser of 2 evils tbh.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Make everyone a Bard/X multiclass.

Swords Bard/Vengeance Paladin
Lore Bard/GOOLock
Lore Bard/Sorcerer
Swords Bard/Druid

[northernwater]

No class is essential. Every class can win in Tactician. It's what you find enjoyable.

My favorite class is a Deep Gnome/Urchin/Rogue Assassin. I just have to much fun with Greater Invisibility and a Stealth Check that can only possibly loose with a 1 roll(with advantage).

I never multi class and never have any trouble winning any fights.

[Cowardly Camper]

Although the Paladin can do some nice smite damage boosting, their real power is in being almost unkillable.

Here's an example.
High elf or half elf with blade ward cantrip
Defence fighting style
2 weapon fighting feat, shattered flail and defender flail
Heavy armor master feat
Adamantine heavy armor
Ring of protection
Wondrous gloves

You're sitting at 23AC even before casting shield of faith, take only half damage from spells, have protection from frighten, immunity from criticals, saving throw bonuses of 5+, can use blade ward to resist physical damage, have 6 damage reduction against physical, and your ward protections extend to all nearby characters. And, you can heal multiple times from attacking enemies with your flail.

And if you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of that, you can throw in coruscation ring, luminous gloves, and the sacred star and replace your radiating cleric.

And finally, if your party members drop, you can just hit them with healing radiance and back up they all are.

[The Emperor Of Milfgaard]

Cleric is great. But yes otherwise you take 3 warlocks with devil sight and darkness if you want to cheese the game. And yea a pala/warlock multiclass is pretty nutz. I personally recommend going for 8 pala and 4 warlock. Can switch it around. the reason for this is attribute improvements/feats. with 8/4 you get 3 out of 4 ASI in multiclass. Other combinations put you down to 2 out of 4. I personally went with cleric/druid multiclass, one fighter(fighter only 1 lvl for heavy armor and proficiency)/rogue and 2 pala/warlock. You can also multiclass warlock with other classes the thing is, example: fighter does not give any caster levels, even tho it is juicy you'd only want to do something like 8 warlock and 4 fighter but even then...just make a paladin instead and get all the caster levels which improve eldritch blast. A decent alternative might actually be bard. For obvious reasons.

If you haven't tried warding bond you totally should. Send your pala/warlock into the fray with warding bond from your cleric. Totally worth.

[HoneyDrake]

Originally posted by Cowardly Camper:

Although the Paladin can do some nice smite damage boosting, their real power is in being almost unkillable.

You're sitting at 23AC even before casting shield of faith,.

Armor of Agility alone adds 17+dex modifier (no upper limit). Which ends up at 23 AC by itself (at 22+ dex).

Add in a shield (+2 and additional bonis, if you want to avoid critical hits adamantine shield exists, way better than the armor)
Add in the shield spell reaction (+5)
Cloak
etc.


You can easily get above 23AC by equipment alone + high dex has high initiative and tons of other uses, too.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:

If you haven't tried warding bong you totally should.

Totally man!

[The Emperor Of Milfgaard]

Originally posted by northernwater:

Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:

If you haven't tried warding bong you totally should.

Totally man!

You agree? Great.