32-56 damage Fire Bolt

[Orion Invictus]

I never expected Draconic Sorcerers would be so powerful.

[Steffan]

Pray tell how did you manage it?

[KRON]

or maybe the target had a fire vulnerability.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by steffan8:

Pray tell how did you manage it?

- Draconic Sorcerer with some sort of Fire dragon ancestry.
- 24 CHA (Birthright+Mirror of Loss+Auntie Ethel+ASI).
- Necklace of Elemental Augmentation.
- Potent Robe.
- That feat that ignores Fire resistance (also prevents you from rolling a 1).
- Markoheskhir (to use Kereshka's Favour).

I think that's everything.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by KRON:

or maybe the target had a fire vulnerability.

Nope. With vulnerability I can easily go over 80 damage.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by steffan8:

Pray tell how did you manage it?

- Draconic Sorcerer with some sort of Fire dragon ancestry.
- 24 CHA (Birthright+Mirror of Loss+Auntie Ethel+ASI).
- Necklace of Elemental Augmentation.
- Potent Robe.
- That feat that ignores Fire resistance (also prevents you from rolling a 1).

I think that's everything.

32 damage minimum on a cantrip... that is truly awesome, especially with the quickening metamagic.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

- Draconic Sorcerer with some sort of Fire dragon ancestry.
- 24 CHA (Birthright+Mirror of Loss+Auntie Ethel+ASI).
- Necklace of Elemental Augmentation.
- Potent Robe.
- That feat that ignores Fire resistance (also prevents you from rolling a 1).

I think that's everything.

32 damage minimum on a cantrip... that is truly awesome, especially with the quickening metamagic.

Seems Gripped by Kereshka's Favour is bugged, though. It's not adding the full modifier. So the math might be off by a few points.

Still, it's a Fire Bolt that's ostensibly more powerful than a Fireball and costs nothing. Also, with Heat, I can go even higher.

[id795078477]

Considering you need Markoheskhir + Birthright, which are pretty much an end-game items .. this should be compared with the similar stuff on the other builds, i.e. end-game. Because "truly powerful" only means something if it is compared with something else.

Let's see, something simple:
-- 27 STR (potion)
-- giantslayer
-- arcane synergy (ring)
-- CHA items, let's keep it to only 22 (ASI+the helmet)
-- GWM
-- helldusk gloves
-- Elemental weapon
-- Elemental ring

Tally: 2d6 + 3 + 16 + 6 + 10 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 2 = 41-59

The "budget potion" would be gauntlets of giant strength, drops the damage by 1d6 (replacing the helldusk gloves) + 4 (double STR bonus difference), so making it "only" 36-49, you can probably drop the arcane synergy and all the spell-casting bonuses too, but damage-wise I just don't see why not use it.

And now.. the final drum-roll: you can make a weapon attack twice - for free, no resources are needed for that. If you're an 11 fighter.. you do it trice, not counting any "expendable" stuff like action surge. So the weapon setup turns into something a-la 82-118 for x2 attacks or 123-177 for x3 attacks.

All of that "on the sheet", without any short-lived buffs (elemental weapon + potion last till long rest and aren't that much needed anyways, I just added those so that a single weapon attack has greater numbers than the setup in question), without expending any resources.

And I didn't even need to come up with intricate setups, just stacking what is out there and gives direct damage bonuses. This isn't to say that OP's setup is "bad". But it is to show that it's most certainly not "truly powerful" as that is reserved to the martial classes at end-game.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by id795078477:

Considering you need Markoheskhir + Birthright, which are pretty much an end-game items .. this should be compared with the similar stuff on the other builds, i.e. end-game. Because "truly powerful" only means something if it is compared with something else.

Let's see, something simple:
-- 27 STR (potion)
-- giantslayer
-- arcane synergy (ring or helmet)
-- CHA items, let's keep it to only 22 (ASI+the helmet)
-- GWM
-- helldusk gloves
-- Elemental weapon
-- Elemental ring

Tally: 2d6 + 3 + 16 + 6 + 10 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 2 = 41-59

The "budget potion" would be gauntlets of giant strength, drops the damage by 1d6 (replacing the helldusk gloves) + 4 (double STR bonus difference), so making it "only" 36-49, you can probably drop the arcane synergy and all the spell-casting bonuses too, but damage-wise I just don't see why not use it.

And now.. the final drum-roll: you can make a weapon attack twice - for free, no resources are needed for that. If you're an 11 fighter.. you do it trice, not counting any "expendable" stuff like action surge. So the weapon setup turns into something a-la 82-118 for x2 attacks or 123-177 for x3 attacks.

All of that "on the sheet", without any short-lived buffs (elemental weapon + potion last till long rest and aren't that much needed anyways, I just added those so that a single weapon attack has greater numbers than the setup in question), without expending any resources.

And I didn't even need to come up with intricate setups, just stacking what is out there and gives direct damage bonuses. This isn't to say that OP's setup is "bad". But it is to show that it's most certainly not "truly powerful" as that is reserved to the martial classes at end-game.

I agree, casters definitely need to be buffed.

[id795078477]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by id795078477:

Considering you need Markoheskhir + Birthright, which are pretty much an end-game items .. this should be compared with the similar stuff on the other builds, i.e. end-game. Because "truly powerful" only means something if it is compared with something else.

Let's see, something simple:
-- 27 STR (potion)
-- giantslayer
-- arcane synergy (ring or helmet)
-- CHA items, let's keep it to only 22 (ASI+the helmet)
-- GWM
-- helldusk gloves
-- Elemental weapon
-- Elemental ring

Tally: 2d6 + 3 + 16 + 6 + 10 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 2 = 41-59

The "budget potion" would be gauntlets of giant strength, drops the damage by 1d6 (replacing the helldusk gloves) + 4 (double STR bonus difference), so making it "only" 36-49, you can probably drop the arcane synergy and all the spell-casting bonuses too, but damage-wise I just don't see why not use it.

And now.. the final drum-roll: you can make a weapon attack twice - for free, no resources are needed for that. If you're an 11 fighter.. you do it trice, not counting any "expendable" stuff like action surge. So the weapon setup turns into something a-la 82-118 for x2 attacks or 123-177 for x3 attacks.

All of that "on the sheet", without any short-lived buffs (elemental weapon + potion last till long rest and aren't that much needed anyways, I just added those so that a single weapon attack has greater numbers than the setup in question), without expending any resources.

And I didn't even need to come up with intricate setups, just stacking what is out there and gives direct damage bonuses. This isn't to say that OP's setup is "bad". But it is to show that it's most certainly not "truly powerful" as that is reserved to the martial classes at end-game.

I agree, casters definitely need to be buffed.

Well, didn't expect that - but glad to realize someone sees sense. Not seeing the arguments a-la "but AoE" (aka expendable spell-slots which need to be compared with expendable stuff on martial's end, i.e. hello, action surge and/or smites) or "but martials need to reach the target to hit it" (as if the longstrider and the boots from that gnome don't exist) is a solid win in my book.

Yes, casters are somewhat gimped.. at least in comparison with martials. A lot of which comes down to BG3's itemization which favors martials on top of 5e already favoring them. It is still possible to play casters effectively .. out of academic interest and some RP itch. But the power? Nope, that's all martials.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by id795078477:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

I agree, casters definitely need to be buffed.

Well, didn't expect that - but glad to realize someone sees sense. Not seeing the arguments a-la "but AoE" (aka expendable spell-slots which need to be compared with expendable stuff on martial's end, i.e. hello, action surge and/or smites) or "but martials need to reach the target to hit it" (as if the longstrider and the boots from that gnome don't exist) is a solid win in my book.

Yes, casters are somewhat gimped.. at least in comparison with martials. A lot of which comes down to BG3's itemization which favors martials on top of 5e already favoring them. It is still possible to play casters effectively .. out of academic interest and some RP itch. But the power? Nope, that's all martials.

I am of the opinion that EVERY time martials and casters are in the same game, casters get shafted, and not in the fun way. Alternatively, casters get relegated to support roles. Because god forbid casters are as powerful as the lore says they should be.

Casters get less HP, less survivability (unless they waste turns and spell slots buffing themselves in temporary ways that can be removed in one martial's turn), all because they can - for a LIMITED number of times per day - deal less damage in one turn than martials can, but they do it to more enemies.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by id795078477:

Considering you need Markoheskhir + Birthright, which are pretty much an end-game items .. this should be compared with the similar stuff on the other builds, i.e. end-game. Because "truly powerful" only means something if it is compared with something else.

Let's see, something simple:
-- 27 STR (potion)
-- giantslayer
-- arcane synergy (ring)
-- CHA items, let's keep it to only 22 (ASI+the helmet)
-- GWM
-- helldusk gloves
-- Elemental weapon
-- Elemental ring

Tally: 2d6 + 3 + 16 + 6 + 10 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 2 = 41-59

The "budget potion" would be gauntlets of giant strength, drops the damage by 1d6 (replacing the helldusk gloves) + 4 (double STR bonus difference), so making it "only" 36-49, you can probably drop the arcane synergy and all the spell-casting bonuses too, but damage-wise I just don't see why not use it.

And now.. the final drum-roll: you can make a weapon attack twice - for free, no resources are needed for that. If you're an 11 fighter.. you do it trice, not counting any "expendable" stuff like action surge. So the weapon setup turns into something a-la 82-118 for x2 attacks or 123-177 for x3 attacks.

All of that "on the sheet", without any short-lived buffs (elemental weapon + potion last till long rest and aren't that much needed anyways, I just added those so that a single weapon attack has greater numbers than the setup in question), without expending any resources.

And I didn't even need to come up with intricate setups, just stacking what is out there and gives direct damage bonuses. This isn't to say that OP's setup is "bad". But it is to show that it's most certainly not "truly powerful" as that is reserved to the martial classes at end-game.

Thrice is nice.

I played 2x pure Fighters (1 ranged, 1 melee) at lvl 12. Except I used Elixirs of Bloodlust instead of Giant Strength (especially on Tactician difficulty) and kept STR at 22-ish. With Bloodthirst and the Titanstring Bow, your hasted ranged Fighter can do 1000+ dmg per turn easy with the ubiquitous Arrows of Many Targets and Arrows of Slaying. Even with baseline dmg (no consumables during combat) you can outshine any 2-handed weapon. My system takes synergy though - two characters working together beats any two solo builds.

But yeah, I had a lvl 12 Sorcerer-Draconic-Red as well. Firebolt is meh - even at 40 avg dmg. Where it's at is Scorching Ray and the Gloves of Spellmight.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Gah damn, that's beautiful right there

[kbiz]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

I never expected Draconic Sorcerers would be so powerful.

Meh. Not that powerful. Evocation Wizard with Eldrich Blast is better.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by kbiz:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

I never expected Draconic Sorcerers would be so powerful.

Meh. Not that powerful. Evocation Wizard with Eldrich Blast is better.

I am taller than >99% of all people on this planet (yes, really). That doesn't mean I'm short just because there's <1% of people taller than me.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by kbiz:

Meh. Not that powerful. Evocation Wizard with Eldrich Blast is better.

I am taller than >99% of all people on this planet (yes, really). That doesn't mean I'm short just because there's <1% of people taller than me.

Really? How tall are you? I'm 6'0".

Trust me, 40 dmg per turn is meh.