*Act 2 Spoilers* Fist Marcus Bad

[Voidfarer]

The Fist Marcus is... bad. he consistently breaks the rules of the game and if you're not on optimized, he can spell doom for your Act 2 at the outset. I want to be clear this isn't a "git gud." I have conquered this fight twice on Honor Mode without causalities, but it is still very annoying.

First is the character. Marcus only shows up before you meet Isabel if you killed the grove and don't have anyone to vouch for you. If you do, he identifies you as true soul and tells you his plans. You can turn on him immediately, but if you don't win the initiative he teleports away in combat, breaking the rules, and there's nothing you can do to stop him. That's bad. It's railroading and it breaks the rules present in every other combat so Marcus can have his big fight scene. He should at least have to use the same flee rules the players have in combat.

If you save the grove, Marcus isn't in camp at all. He just shows up when talking to Isobel. There's bugged dialogue with Jaheria to let her know that Marcus is confronting Isabel right now, but I've found it only triggers after Marcus is dead. Moreover, even if that was successful it would put the Act 1 refugees in danger because they have no one to protect them.

This scene is also bad for roleplaying, because there's a sign in front of Last Light that says no weapons inside. Then they hit you with a difficult DPS race. If you remember the switch character button, you could equip your other characters for a fight once Marcus walks inside, but not your speaking character.

Marcus summons a bunch of winged horrors who attack the people of the inn. The result of this encounter comes down entirely to initiative. Winged horrors are a homebrew winged ghoul whose attacks force a DC 10 Con Save or be paralyzed. Attacks against paralyzed creatures always crit. So if the horrors downstairs go first and don't get tied up in melee with Harpers, all your Act 1 buddies can die before you have a chance to react, especially because you're upstairs. and the design of the last light room prevents line of sight on Jaheria's desk from Isobel's room. That means Alfina is at a huge risk of getting paralyzed and killed.

In the fight itself, Marcus gives himself 2d8 HP per character in the room with Vampire Shout if he gets the initiative. Marcus is the only creature in the game with vampiric shout, another homebrew mechanic, and it's not even a legendary action. It also has an 8m radius making it twice as big as fireball. It's unclear whether this is an action or bonus action, but he's still able to attack after.

The Isobel AI is ebad. She'll either attempt to turn undead or sacred flame as she's getting wholloped. She also won't disengage even when surrounded by winged horrors. If you know about this fight ahead of time, you can cast Protection from Good and Evil on her before initiating dialogue, but again if the initiative is bad she can die before the fight starts.

AOE spells are also broken in this fight. This fight is on the second floor and every AoE spell I've tested (not just those with a sphere) pierces through the floor and can harm the Flaming Fist (and AC) in the office below, potentially ruining your whole Act 2 curse arc. Also, if the door to the fist office is closed, they're not in combat, so they will just take continuous damage.

Finally, if Isobel is knocked out, Marcus breaks the rules of the game to vanish completely. Doesn't matter if he's surrounded by characters with AOOs, doesn't matter if you had him personally banished or locked in a Hold Monster. If Isobel hits 0 HP, cutscene plays and Marcus teleports away. That's bad.

Larian homebrewed a character with a 1-of-a-kind vampiric touch AoE ability, homebrewed flying ghouls, and homebrewed a teleportation mechanic to dramatically increase the chances Fist Marcus is able to kidnap Isobel. At the same time, they put a number of Act 1 characters you saved in danger while you aren't in the same room with them.

For most players, I imagine this is a bloodbath and an extremely irritating experience. The only thing that can really stop it is winning the initiative and stunning Marcus. And that's bad game design.

[Teskal]

It was a blood bath, but not for me. Marcus had no chance and he used it. And I didn't let him hurt Isobel, much.


It is not unusual that enemies can use resources players can't. I played OD&D, AD&D, and many other RPG's and usually enemies are able to do much more.

[Pyromaiden]

Originally posted by Slugga:

This scene is also bad for roleplaying, because there's a sign in front of Last Light that says no weapons inside. Then they hit you with a difficult DPS race. If you remember the switch character button, you could equip your other characters for a fight once Marcus walks inside, but not your speaking character.

Wait... did you actually unequip your weapons? You realize that sign is pre-curse, right? The Harpers don't care if you're armed; they didn't put up the signs.

For most players, I imagine this is a bloodbath and an extremely irritating experience. The only thing that can really stop it is winning the initiative and stunning Marcus. And that's bad game design.

Nobody died on my first play. All the enemies, Marcus included, were either fighting party members or Harpers. Barely had to defend Isobel at all.

[seeker1]

A couple points.

1. I don't know why he sometimes does and sometimes doesn't, BUT, I can tell you, there ARE times where I confront Dolor at Cora's and he teleports away. So yeah, other enemies do this.

2. They may be slightly different in stats, but the Winged Horrors don't seem VERY different from the flying ghouls you can get from an up-casted summons of Animate Dead.

3. Yes, Isobel is using the game's NPC AI; yes that AI is bone dumb; plan around it.

[Gaslov]

This is a very stupid part of the game and is very rng dependent. The impact of having a very probable unlucky encounter is far too big.

[Aerohank]

Is homebrewing monsters supposed to be a bad thing somehow?

What I don't like about the Marcus fight is that it comes out of the blue if you've saved the grove. It would have been nice to have more of a set up to this character.