Did you guys break Wyll's contract with Mizora?

[Lampros]

I did - but what is the optimal choice?

[jonnin]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by seeker1:

You can find this out either from guides or just a playthrough but it comes down to this ...


Rule 1. Mizora lies. She tells Wyll either re-enter the contract, or his father dies. Or she sorta hints he may already be dead. But either way, she won't tell Wyll what's up unless he re-enters the contract.

So: just so you know, and I'm keeping this under spoiler tags, but you're here reading of your own volition. As I said, she's lying. You can keep his pact broken, and Duke Ravengard is most definitely still alive and being held in the Iron Throne. (In most game states, I guess I should say). When you go to rescue him, Mizora will make it harder to save him, because that's just who she is.

In short, knowing what I know now, I always have Wyll end his contract. Sure, he will lose his powers, but not before the end of the game.

What "powers" is he losing? That seems like a big deal?!

Originally posted by EricHVela:

Mizora won't tell you all of your character's options. The Narrator (who calls herself the DM in the outtakes but is listed as the Narrator in the credits) only outlines the pros and cons of what Mizora offers and not the other possibilities you can choose to do.

What I did:
In two words: Defy Mizora. In more words: Break the contract and save the Duke, too. You still get her and Wyll's powers through the end of the game. His powers end only when the Absolute is destroyed. This leads to a possible solution for Karlach and is shown to be a very positive resolution for both characters in the Epilogue.

Again, what "powers"? He seem to me the least powerful among my companions with no unique trick?

eldrich blast, pact of the blade, all his spells, all his perks like devil sight or getting false life after a kill, all that stuff he does.

This game is wonky -- pact of the tome is exceedingly limited and pact of the chain is redundant because shovel -- so assuming pact of the blade, wyll can:
- hit for 5-15 1,2 or 3 times with eldrich blast, which also knocks stuff into other aoes like cloud of daggers or off heights for gravity or 'the big void' injury/death.
- use any weapon in the game with his cha score as if it were str/dex
- attack 2 times with his weapon, 3-4 with some multiclassing (Honor mode disables the stacking attacks). EG level 5 warlock, level 3 frenzy barbarian in rage gets 3 attacks, and at barb 5 another one (without rage!). You can't cast in rage, but he only has 2 spells... its a fairly interesting build. That can be a 2h hard hitting weapon!
- use armor and shield as a 'caster'
- his hex spell extra damage falls off in rage but you still can hit 3 times per round with it. And, it triggers on each EB beam.
- eb is flat damage, so whether its better to use that or a weapon depends on what weapons you have found and if he has other gear that increases weapon damage hits. At some point, weapons are better damage but EB is ranged and almost as good.

Bottom line is that he should be a solid damage dealer with lots of options in any fight. HOH is just brutal, as is cloud of daggers (its small, but its nasty and he auto upcasts it for more damage dice).

he can also talk you out of a lot of situations, and can get 2 talking skills for free as one of his pact boons.

All that stuff (except the multiclassing build notes) is lost when he breaks his pact. He can respec as any other class, but that is outside the game.

[seeker1]

Demons don't plan because they are Chaotic Evil. Devils overplan because they are Lawful Evil.

I think this is why the Blood War keeps going ... you have one side excessively relying on planning, maybe even overplanning, and the other side, well, they are kinda like the bird that when playing chess, just struts and knocks over all the pieces. Demons just wanna unleash and do chaos. Plans fail against them because by nature they do the unexpected.

When you go to the Abyss in WotR, the buildings are constantly shifting and moving around as you move & move the camera. That's because, well, everything in the abyss is constantly chaotically shifting and changing. I could quibble with how Owlcat implemented the mechanics, but at least that captures the "feel" of the place.

[thufirhawat333]

Originally posted by Carm:

Breaking it gives you a reward in achievement. And sacrificing an eternal soul of Wyll for his father's who already lived his life is irrational. And the game is wrong for trying to frame it as selfish.

Yes. This is the morally right thing to do. There is not a single father in their right mind that would not choose to sacrifice themselves in order to save their kids from slaving to a devil.

[EricHVela]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Demons don't plan because they are Chaotic Evil. Devils overplan because they are Lawful Evil.

Wyll's presence was something that neither Tiamat nor Zariel likely expected, but Zariel was able to use that errant influence to thwart Tiamat. I suppose even Devils need a bit of luck from the outside now and then. It's really the only way they'll get an edge over each other as they can outmaneuver each other to a stalemate almost every time. How Tiamat's plan got as far as it did is anyone's guess. Perhaps, there was an outside influence. The Cult of the Dragon isn't under direct control of the Devils. They just try to serve Tiamat's goals. If they deviate from Tiamat's edicts, they can provide opportunities for her or her enemies. That's why she rules with an iron fist, but people are people, and they'll do the unexpected all the same.

[Pyromaiden]

My first play I didn't know what to expect in the Iron Throne so I chose not to break it because I knew she was going backstab you there.

Now that I know what to expect I won't be doing that anymore as it's clear breaking the contract and preparing for Mizora's backstab is the better option

[Pyromaiden]

Actually, I have a question about this: when Mizora appears in the Iron Throne after you break the contract she tries to inflict the Duke with Dominate and force him to kneel so her exploding spiders kill him. Can she still force him to kneel if you cast Sanctuary on him first?

[EricHVela]

Originally posted by Pyromania™:

Actually, I have a question about this: when Mizora appears in the Iron Throne after you break the contract she tries to inflict the Duke with Dominate and force him to kneel so her exploding spiders kill him. Can she still force him to kneel if you cast Sanctuary on him first?

The spell description does not specify non-damaging effects, only direct-damage effects. (AoEs still cause damage.) Likely won't work to protect him, but I've never tried it.

[yahboi1988]

Originally posted by EricHVela:

Originally posted by seeker1:

Demons don't plan because they are Chaotic Evil. Devils overplan because they are Lawful Evil.

Wyll's presence was something that neither Tiamat nor Zariel likely expected, but Zariel was able to use that errant influence to thwart Tiamat. I suppose even Devils need a bit of luck from the outside now and then. It's really the only way they'll get an edge over each other as they can outmaneuver each other to a stalemate almost every time. How Tiamat's plan got as far as it did is anyone's guess. Perhaps, there was an outside influence. The Cult of the Dragon isn't under direct control of the Devils. They just try to serve Tiamat's goals. If they deviate from Tiamat's edicts, they can provide opportunities for her or her enemies. That's why she rules with an iron fist, but people are people, and they'll do the unexpected all the same.

The cult of the dragon is actually in a secret "civil war." There are 2 factions, one co-opted by Tiamat, and the original that is more about animating dead dragons.

[Pat Fenis]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Again, what "powers"? He seem to me the least powerful among my companions with no unique trick?

Power level of the characters is mostly decided what gear you give them. Aside from the achievement, breaking/extending the contract only affects 1 fight in the iron throne afaik. If you break it she will try to kill ravenguard, or if you extend it she will show up and heal him.

He's very easy to keep alive even if she is trying to kill him. Sanctuary and/or dimension door. Either way, Mizora hangs around camp and keeps letting wyll do warlock things because she want to see the elder brain dead.