DC and calculation of Mortal Reminder?

[Shells]

The GOO Warlock feature Mortal Reminder fears enemies when they fail a WIS save after having been hit by an attack or a spell critically. But what is the DC (difficulty class) for the check? How is it calculated? Like with lots of the tooltips in this game, MR has a totally lacking ingame tooltip in regards of the rules.

Usually a DC is 8+proficiency+ability modifier. Does the game take CHA for a Warlock spell, DEX for a ranged attack and so on? I have found a single source where somebody mentioned INT being the ability referenced for all MR DC calculations.

Without Larian explaining their rules it is difficult to judge whether a feature is worth it in a build. So yeah, any insight would be welcome.

[Recjawjind]

Would be best to check the combat log, the DC will be listed in there. Otherwise, there has been some funky stuff with DC calculation, so I'd just trigger it and check the log.

[Xan]

Originally posted by Shells:

The GOO Warlock feature Mortal Reminder fears enemies when they fail a WIS save after having been hit by an attack or a spell critically. But what is the DC (difficulty class) for the check? How is it calculated? Like with lots of the tooltips in this game, MR has a totally lacking ingame tooltip in regards of the rules.

Usually a DC is 8+proficiency+ability modifier. Does the game take CHA for a Warlock spell, DEX for a ranged attack and so on? I have found a single source where somebody mentioned INT being the ability referenced for all MR DC calculations.

Without Larian explaining their rules it is difficult to judge whether a feature is worth it in a build. So yeah, any insight would be welcome.

iirc, for some reason it works the same way scrolls do. That is, it takes the spellcasting dc of the most recent class you levelled and uses that. For example, if you just recently hit a new level in rogue, it will use int. If you've been nothing but warlock, it will use cha, etc.

This kind of thing makes a popular Goo lock / Assassin mix kinda screwy

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

According to TT rules that feature should take your spell save dc (8+prof+cha for warlock)
All warlock spells should use cha for their calculations, unless indicated otherwise.

[Shells]

@PW: Shill: Mortal Reminder is not really a spell but a class abuility, isn't it? Still, taking CHA would obviously make sense for a Warlock fear based effect.

@Xan: That is a good hint, yes. I will try to up my WIS to 16 and pick my last level in ranger, then check the combat log to see if WIS gets referenced.

@Recjawjind: Yes, seems I will have to try it out cheking the combat log, then meta-respec when I have found out how it works. Sad these things are not in the tooltips.

Thanks guys!

[Xan]

A bunch of the save DC stuff for some of the less-often played subclasses are wonky. Barbarians use CHA for their DC for wild magic subclass stuff (instead of con), pact of the blade still uses str/dex for weapon actions even if the weapon is bound, etc.

[hermit0wl]

Loaded up my GOOlock to check, Mortal Reminder seems to be using the CHA Spell DC both with Eldritch Blast and weapon attacks. No idea what multiclassing would do to it though :)

[guard65]

There are a number of different DC foundation saves and passives that effect them. Clarified Mortallity uses this one, which is the targets wisdom "SPELL" DC 8 + wisdom modifier + any spell DC modifier + prof.bonus if applicable, assuming I got it right of course.

new entry "Projectile_ClarifiedMortality"
data "SpellRoll" "not SavingThrow(Ability.Wisdom, SourceSpellDC())"

[guard65]

Of course I am wrong, I do believe the source spell DC is 8 plus your charisma modifier as a warlock, then all their modifies against yours. (Wife's input)

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Originally posted by guard65:

There are a number of different DC foundation saves and passives that effect them. Clarified Mortallity uses this one, which is the targets wisdom "SPELL" DC 8 + wisdom modifier + any spell DC modifier + prof.bonus if applicable, assuming I got it right of course.

new entry "Projectile_ClarifiedMortality"
data "SpellRoll" "not SavingThrow(Ability.Wisdom, SourceSpellDC())"

shouldn't SourceSpellDC calculate the spell dc via cha?
I would interpret the function call the following:
The enemy has to make a wis save against the casters spell save dc, which for a warlock would be 8+prof mod+cha mod

[Shells]

I have tested the behavior now. No matter in which order of class levels I level the character up, it is always _CHA_ that gets referenced for Mortal Reminder. The math goes like this:

DC: 8 + 4 (my proficiency) + 3 (my CHA bonus) = a
WIS save: d20 + x (enemy's proficiency bonus) + y (enemy's WIS bonus) = z
if (a > z) Mortal Reminder successfully applied aka enemy frightened

Regarding the fact that one first has to score a crit and then succeed the 40% base chance check Mortal Reminder doesn't seem to be a good splash feature (in terms of a 1 or 2 lv Warlock dip) except for those builds that strictly rely on a CHA between 20, better yet 22 or 24.