Champion vs. Battlemaster

[Giganx]

So, which do you think is better for a pure fighter?

From my very basic understanding of the subclasses Battlemaster gives you the superiority dice, which allow you to inflict status ailments on enemies, and champion gives you an additional 10% crit chance. If there are any other major selling points for each subclass I'd be curious to know.

I'm leaning towards Champion with a crit build.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Champion vs. Battlemaster
So, which do you think is better for a pure fighter?

From my very basic understanding of the subclasses Battlemaster gives you the superiority dice, which allow you to inflict status ailments on enemies, and champion gives you an additional 10% crit chance. If there are any other major selling points for each subclass I'd be curious to know.

I'm leaning towards Champion with a crit build.

Battlemaster. I consider the champion path to be a red herring.

The number you need to roll a Critical Hit while attacking is reduced by 1. This effect can stack.

That equals a chance increase of 5%, and depending on the items you use you can get what - a maximum of 15% critical hit chance? It is not too shabby if you assume using three to six attacks in a round. But a critical hit is just a double damage dice still, while Battlemaster gives you flexibility and you still can have a 10% crit chance easily.

[Mr Fred]

Its 5% btw, wont change much at the end of the day but I prefer Battlemaster as the game is very shallow and it give more buttons to press.

[Darth Cannabis]

Be sure to look beyond what you get at level 3 when you make the choice.

Battlemaster gets additional manouvieres at level 7 and 10.

Champion gets increased jump distance and ability to a half their proficiency bonus to any STR, DEX, or CON check that they are NOT proficient in at level 7, and at level 10 get to choose an additional fighting style.

Don't underestimate those later benefits. 2 fighting styles open up quite a few possibilities. Shield and Defense for the tank, a weapon fighting style and archery to be a dual range threat, etc.

I would still lean toward battlemaster, but don't sleep on champion either. They make excellent fighters as well, and the gap isn't all that big between the two.

[Recjawjind]

Always battle master, there is virtually no reason to ever pick champion. It's bad.

[EvilDonut]

Champion is good as a dip, not a full class. 3 levels of Champion can do very good for your build

[Aerohank]

It's actually 100% increased chance to crit. It's not insignificant.

[Sentient_Toaster]

I'd personally favor Battlemaster out of a preference for having more decisions to make and more resources to manage, and the general combat utility (e.g. disarming, toppling, more chances to shove).

It is worth noting that in 5E critical hits only affect damage dice, not flat bonuses. They're great for rogues with multiple damage dice from sneak attacks or for paladins who get an opportunity to land a double-strength smite... but e.g. if you're a fighter getting +8 damage from strength c/o an Elixir of Cloud Giant Strength and +10 from Great Weapon Master, that +18 damage won't be doubled on a crit.

For what it's worth, a barbarian recklessly attacking has advantage (well, barring a source of disadvantage) and crits 9.75% of the time without additional modifiers, almost as much as a champion w/o advantage. Add a single item which improves crit range by 1, and it shifts in favor of barbarian's consistent advantage (19% crit rate vs. 15% for a champion w/o advantage), and the barbarian will eventually get an additional damage die on critical hits, too. Of course, reckless invites attack, but a raging barbarian can probably tank the damage decently, and killing things faster is usually the best damage mitigation anyway (I mean, it's expensive slot-wise throwing around Globe of Invulnerability...).

[psychotron666]

Champion fighter has always been the class you give someone who's never played dnd before to try, as all they need to know is move and attack.

Besides that it's not a good sub class and battle master is infinitely better

[Giganx]

For a little more context, I'm playing as an Orc and plan on running risky ring, so I have a better than normal crit modifier and advantage on every attack, so that 1 point of crit reduction ends up being +10% crit chance. With the other crit reduction items you can get it ends up being 30% chance to crit.

Are the damage modifiers given by battlemaster dice doubled on crit?

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by Giganx:

For a little more context, I'm playing as an Orc and plan on running risky ring, so I have a better than normal crit modifier and advantage on every attack, so that 1 point of crit reduction ends up being +10% crit chance.

Are the damage modifiers given by battlemaster dice doubled on crit?

The ones that add damage dice (like menacing attack, pushing strike etc) will double on crits

[kbiz]

I prefer a Champion with an additional +1 Crit and Advantage for a 28% Crit chance.

[jonnin]

BM lets you knock opponents prone and then hitting them which is better than 5% chance to crit. Guess I am the weirdo but I prefer EK as even a few lame spells is better than once every 10 fights getting a crit or a knockdown. Ice, fire, etc can blow stuff up or make a trip hazard (out of blood ice, usually) and if its your main char, friends or something can be nice, and as a reaction, its hard to beat shield spell on a warrior.

Note that you can get a couple of BM dice with a feat, and have a little of both worlds.

[McGoodGreen]

I take Champion and I am very happy with it. End game advantages and the chunky increase in critical hits is awesome. I have enough battlefield utility with my other characters. BM is still an incredible option though. I wouldn't say one is better than the other. Just depends how you picture your character fighting.

[Recjawjind]

Yknow whats better than a larger crit range? Guaranteed crits from hold person / monster. Ez.

[Адамска]

I prefer battlemaster for the utility it brings to the whole party. Granting advantage from a ranged position is huge, disarming heavy hitters is a massive boon