Dame Aylin is badly written character.

[Severian]

So, it's been on my mind for long time, and I want to see what others feel like.
SPOILERS

The fact that Aylin can ruin your attempts at reasoning with Ketheric is insane. It feels like DM going over my seat, and beating me for trying to play my way.
Not to mention very hard skill checks, getting Ketheric to surrender and trying to reason with him was really good. I hoped there would be ending where he isn't dead, or is mending his ways.

But no. Aylin won't let you, even if you pass all skillchecks, even if you have good arguments, that Selune was ♥♥♥♥ to him. Nope. Reading his letters to Isobel and his wife is bittersweet.

It's just terrible writting power tripping from Larian. And taking away choices.

Edit: Not to mention she would go and kill surrendering, defenseless man. Not very ''Good'' sided.

PS: At least you can then let the mad Wizard get Aylin again, because that's what that murder-hobo deserves.

Thoughts?

[Millstone85]

She was basically locked in this guy's basement for decades. It is is easy for you to forgive him but like hell she will.

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by Millstone85:

She was basically locked in this guy's basement for decades. It is is easy for you to forgive him but like hell she will.

Locked in an evil goddess' realm, used as a proxy whenever Kethric "died" to keep him alive, also killed over and over again by Sharrans seeking to become dark Justiciars.... Yeah, I'd say Aylin's rage was MORE than justified after literally a century of brutal abuse at the hands of a genocidal maniac.

[Sountrex]

Originally posted by Millstone85:

She was basically locked in this guy's basement for decades. It is is easy for you to forgive him but like hell she will.

+1

that and you have to remember any pain he suffers she suffers it instead, now imagine being enslaved all alone for a hundred + years suffering pain over and over again, when you put that thought into the character it makes much more sense doesn't it?

Most characters in this game are explained why they act the way they do, and of course you do not have to like her. But I like every cast in this game and every character, even the ones you shouldn't like, I suppose the closest I feel to neutral to a character is Orin mainly because she is just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane and really does not have much plot behind her, still I do not dislike her as a character either way.

[Rachel Dawn Amber]

yes, that's why you've an option to spear her, case closed

[Lani]

Originally posted by Arnveld:

Thoughts?

I'm thinking you don't want a good story with characters that have depth and agency, but a Power Fantasy/Trip because you get annoyed by another character showing agency in the game.
It's interesting that you're annoyed by her in an ally role further strengthening the idea she's tweaking your ego.
Raphael's way more overbearing in forcing your hands but that doesn't seem to bother you. Maybe you could put on your mind for a while why that is? I hope you can come up with something other than misogyny.

Ketheric is a classic 'Sympathy for the Devil' trope character and well written at that, but for story reasons has to die. Either by your hand or hers. If you can't surrender the kill to her, do it yourself.

[Banelord]

Originally posted by Arnveld:

So, it's been on my mind for long time, and I want to see what others feel like.
SPOILERS

The fact that Aylin can ruin your attempts at reasoning with Ketheric is insane. It feels like DM going over my seat, and beating me for trying to play my way.
Not to mention very hard skill checks, getting Ketheric to surrender and trying to reason with him was really good. I hoped there would be ending where he isn't dead, or is mending his ways.

But no. Aylin won't let you, even if you pass all skillchecks, even if you have good arguments, that Selune was ♥♥♥♥ to him. Nope. Reading his letters to Isobel and his wife is bittersweet.

It's just terrible writting power tripping from Larian. And taking away choices.

Edit: Not to mention she would go and kill surrendering, defenseless man. Not very ''Good'' sided.

PS: At least you can then let the mad Wizard get Aylin again, because that's what that murder-hobo deserves.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I am with you on the Dame Aylin situation. Its been bugging me too.

The whole Ketheric storyline, and how it's impacted by Aylin's actions, really does feel like a wrench in the works of our (player) agency. Like, you're there, doing your best to navigate these tricky skill checks, trying to find a peaceful or at least a more nuanced resolution with Ketheric. But then Aylin just steamrolls over all your efforts.

Its like playing chess, and just as your about to make a strategic move, someone else grabs your piece and makes a completely different move.

And I totally get the part about wanting a non-lethal ending or a chance for redemption for Ketheric. It adds depth to the game when you can explore different outcomes based on your choices and actions. But with Aylin's rigid approach, it feels like you are being railroaded into one specific outcome, no matter how well you play your part.

Then there's the bit about Aylin going after a surrendering, defenseless man. It’s kind of at odds with what you’d expect from a character on the 'Good' side of the alignment chart. It feels like a missed opportunity for more complex character development or moral ambiguity.

So yeah, it does come off as a bit of power tripping in the writing, where the game is taking away choices rather than empowering you to make them. It's like the game is saying, "Nice try with all those skill checks and strategic thinking, but here's how it's going to go down".

[seeker1]

Spoilers?

Dunno, How would it feel to be imprisoned in the Shadowfell for - how long was it? Years and years? And I think while the passage of time in there is different, it might even FEEL longer than the time passage in the real world. I get why she is angry. And of course, the other layer on all this is the man who imprisoned her seems to have done it for two reasons ... to steal her immortality and because he was pissed she "stole" away the daughter, Isobel, he literally gave his soul to Myrkul for to bring back to life.

When she also stomps on the head of a defenseless, downed Larroakan, other folks will mostly comment ... she seems almost horribly fixated on nearly mindless revenge. But, then, given that he is trying to basically do a "repeat scenario" of imprisoning her for his own immortality, you can see why this triggers her.

She is technically a paladin, but as an NPC you can't really see this; but frankly, there's no doubt about it, she appears to be on an Oath of VENGEANCE and that oath has no problem with putting your boot on the face of downed, helpless evil.

[Chaosolous]

I liked her.

[northernwater]

The cut scene is cool, but she is really boring in Act 3.

[northernwater]

The writing in BG3 is good in the small, but the overarching story is very shallow and poorly written.

[Severian]

Originally posted by Lani:

Originally posted by Arnveld:

Thoughts?

I'm thinking you don't want a good story with characters that have depth and agency, but a Power Fantasy/Trip because you get annoyed by another character showing agency in the game.
It's interesting that you're annoyed by her in an ally role further strengthening the idea she's tweaking your ego.
Raphael's way more overbearing in forcing your hands but that doesn't seem to bother you. Maybe you could put on your mind for a while why that is? I hope you can come up with something other than misogyny.

Ketheric is a classic 'Sympathy for the Devil' trope character and well written at that, but for story reasons has to die. Either by your hand or hers. If you can't surrender the kill to her, do it yourself.

Blocked and reported. Don't accuse me of that.

[The Yeen Queen]

Addendum to what I said earlier:

I WILL agree that her overall personality is too over the top and a bit grating. ( In the same way that the way Withers talks grates on me a bit. Sounds like the guys in AOL's old RP chatrooms trying too hard to sound olde timey. ) That is something, however, that is completely unrelated to her gender or sexuality. Overall I like her, just wish she was toned down a bit in those regards.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by northernwater:

The writing in BG3 is good in the small, but the overarching story is very shallow and poorly written.

Pretty much my thoughts on it, things are disjointed as hell, when subplots just stand on their own they're usually fine, it's when things start to blend that problems arise.

But honestly I think a lot of the issue is it's just the prototypical "Worst type of Paladin" writing imo for the character in question.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by northernwater:

The writing in BG3 is good in the small, but the overarching story is very shallow and poorly written.

Pretty much my thoughts on it, things are disjointed as hell, when subplots just stand on their own they're usually fine, it's when things start to blend that problems arise.

Exactly.

[seeker1]

Originally posted by northernwater:

The cut scene is cool, but she is really boring in Act 3.

Spoilers?

If you don't stumble across Larroakan's desire to imprison her, she has nothing really to DO in Act 3, other than chat with you in camp. But what is non-obvious is you might be expecting her help in "Gather Your Allies," in the endgame, but you don't get it (or Isobel's) unless you help her kill Larroakan.

BTW - there is a Dame Aylin mod where you can summon her out into the world as an NPC from a ring and she even has a more full suite of paladin abilities. This seems to make sense in Act 3. After all, if she's gonna chill in your camp, and said she will help you - well, maybe she should, no? Even before the endgame? Though the ring, of course, could theoretically let you summon her in Act 1, too. Which would make no sense, but anyhoo.