"I don't want guns in my fantasy world because reasons"

[spasti696969]

Seriously the lack of guns in what's basically become a steampunk world is starting to irk me. We have hydraulic elevators, mechanical giant crab robot suits, but no guns?

> "It ruins my immersion", but why? The buildings and clothing in the game denote a renaissance era level of cultural progression and technology. The fact that full platemail exists alone would suggest we're in the late middle ages at the very earliest. So even though guns weren't "prevalent", they still would have existed for hundred of years at this point in some sort of experimental or irregular form. Remember this was before the industrial revolution when it could often take a long time for new technology to catch on and spread. What's wrong with the dwarves or gnomes in certain regions having guns?

> "It ruins D&D combat", this is a little better than the first one, but still pretty weak. Guns have been called "the great equalizer" because it gives an old man a chance in a fight against a younger, stronger man when otherwise he would have no chance. I guess this is bad in combat, for some reason? People really want to see a big strapping barbarian man swinging his sword around, and there's no room for technology or ingenuity? What about that "gadget girl" on the team who's always throwing out traps and stuff? She can't have a gun? The wizards shooting their magic wands back and forth, that's not basically a "gun" already? Look, if you're fighting a 25 foot tall giant made out of solid rock, you can fight a guy with a gun.

> "Socio-political considerations" is probably the most serious concern. Guns are currently a topic of political debate due to concerns over gun control and mass shootings. Some people simply don't want this in their campaign. Sure, if someone in your play group would get actual PTSD triggering, avoid the guns. But otherwise, I'd say confronting these topics head on is preferable to ignoring them. We deal with "adult topics" in our games all the time. Why should this one be taboo?

WotC, give us guns already. Stop letting politics get in the way of the game.

[Moonlight Knight]

Genuinely I do agree with this sentiment in a general sense, but that said, in Forgotten Realms itself, there's an actual explanation for why guns aren't a thing, and that leads me to believe it's a creative decision by Ed Greenwood. Whether I agree it should be a thing or not is kinda immaterial, as I tend to respect authorial decisions as just part of the creative vision.

Speaking of wands specifically, I've always really enjoyed the thought of a setting where guns were actually a technological "evolution" from wands instead of from cannons.

[Plz dont feint]

Well yes why not, I don't see why guns wouldn't exist, especially since we got literal gunpowder everywhere in the game. Guns could be magic too.

They want the game to be kinda based on a medieval setting, but at this point it as absolutly nothing to do with medieval.

[surreptitious]

You dont need them
Magic.

flying steel balls lose their fear factor , when Wizards fire off 12 magic missiles and 1/2 the creatures would shrug off a bullet..... i keep shooting that skeleton .. but. .

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by surreptitious:

You dont need them
Magic.

flying steel balls lose their fear factor , when Wizards fire off 12 magic missiles and 1/2 the creatures would shrug off a bullet...

Not everyone has the skill or temperament to use magic, though, and if a single wizard had to face off a firing line, I think the fear of the old flying steel ball would genuinely be a bit more of a concern.

[Alex]

Maybe next game. I'm all for those old guns, I mean I'm a Warhammer fanboy and the Empire with their guns make me feel all happy inside but BG3 just fails to present the game that way. The steampunk way. There are way too few elements that make the game feel that way and way too many medieval fantasy elements. It's just the way I see it. But perhaps they can focus on that a bit in the next game, maybe make gnomes more tech-focused to introduce that theme into the game.

[ChuckyDontCare]

They are in 5e but seem pretty controversial. But, I have no interest in guns being in DnD. It really wouldn't make any sense with this being a continuation of the first two games; perhaps in a different place/time period/story arc.

Not everything in life is political.

[seeker1]

Shrug. There are two ways to add firearms to the game.

Use the Artificer class mod. It uses firearms, and they are now in the game (specifically, muskets, and flintlock pistols). However, at high enough level, the artificer switches over to an Arcane Cannon they can summon which is basically a blaster rifle. It fires beams of force. The Pirate class mod also has firearms proficiency. And if you don't want either, there's a Firearms mod that just adds firearms to the game, and possible proficiency with them. (They are technically coded as slings, an object type the game isn't using because they were removed at release.)

Artificers SORTA come from the Eberron setting but eh, there's nothing that says they can't possibly exist in FR. I also just noticed today somebody put a Warforged race mod up on Nexus. (That's in the Eberron sourcebooks, too.)

So ... flintlocks and muskets don't really start to appear until the 17th and 18th centuries in real Earth history, but look, the FR is not Earth, and FR is NOT medieval Europe. Bear in mind, in game itself are submarines, Steel Watcher automatons, and Gortash is using quite a bit of "steampunk" level technology. The funny thing is it's basically the appearance of gunpowder weapons that put an end to the use of wearing medieval armor.

There is now a mod to let you use a 20th century Glock pistol, too. Now that doesn't seem quite as right to me, but hey, it's your game.

Pathfinder has a Gunslinger class in 2E.

[spasti696969]

Originally posted by seeker1:

There is now a mod to let you use a 20th century Glock pistol, too. Now that doesn't seem quite as right to me, but hey, it's your game.

Now I really want to make a character named "Bard with a Glock"

[Goblin King Jareth]

Originally posted by spasti696969:

Seriously the lack of guns in what's basically become a steampunk world is starting to irk me. We have hydraulic elevators, mechanical giant crab robot suits, but no guns?

> "It ruins my immersion", but why? The buildings and clothing in the game denote a renaissance era level of cultural progression and technology. The fact that full platemail exists alone would suggest we're in the late middle ages at the very earliest. So even though guns weren't "prevalent", they still would have existed for hundred of years at this point in some sort of experimental or irregular form. Remember this was before the industrial revolution when it could often take a long time for new technology to catch on and spread. What's wrong with the dwarves or gnomes in certain regions having guns?

> "It ruins D&D combat", this is a little better than the first one, but still pretty weak. Guns have been called "the great equalizer" because it gives an old man a chance in a fight against a younger, stronger man when otherwise he would have no chance. I guess this is bad in combat, for some reason? People really want to see a big strapping barbarian man swinging his sword around, and there's no room for technology or ingenuity? What about that "gadget girl" on the team who's always throwing out traps and stuff? She can't have a gun? The wizards shooting their magic wands back and forth, that's not basically a "gun" already? Look, if you're fighting a 25 foot tall giant made out of solid rock, you can fight a guy with a gun.

> "Socio-political considerations" is probably the most serious concern. Guns are currently a topic of political debate due to concerns over gun control and mass shootings. Some people simply don't want this in their campaign. Sure, if someone in your play group would get actual PTSD triggering, avoid the guns. But otherwise, I'd say confronting these topics head on is preferable to ignoring them. We deal with "adult topics" in our games all the time. Why should this one be taboo?

WotC, give us guns already. Stop letting politics get in the way of the game.

I like guns in fantasy settings quite fine but trying to make political hay out of the setting that originally had some callbacks to iron stopping magic (caster's can't wear armor, druids had to wear natural materials only) is a weird you issue because you want attention for fighting strawmen you're making up online. They changed it a bit later saying armor was restrictive to somatic components of spells, but the idea was there since first edition.

[Big Moustache]

Agreed i want a rune powder boomstick

[Lani]

There's no 'historical' argument for the lack of gunpowder based projectile weapons.
More centuries passed in Europe between the advent of chainmail, or maile and plate armour than passed between plate armour and the M16 for instance and yet those are both in use in the Forgotten Realms. Don't get me started on 'studded armour'. it's all make believe thrown together by people with an understanding of history that even a Victorian would be embarrassed by.

Mostly it's a case of vibe and game mechanics.
The introduction of stand-off capability through ranged weaponry with relatively low skill requirement significantly changes the dynamics of an RPG whose mechanics are based on individual prowess. And that's before considering mass production.

[spasti696969]

Originally posted by ChuckyDontCare:

Not everything in life is political.

The conscious decision to avoid guns certainly is. They do the same thing in Magic. They just released a set based on a planar world themed after 1920's gangsters. No guns even though the Tommy Gun was one of the most iconic images of the era. They have a wild west set coming out next year. Again, no guns even though the old six shooter defined the wild west. It's going to be a bunch of cowboys sword fighting each other.

It's also interrelated with a business decision, since they would almost certainly lose numbers if they added guns because left leaning parents would stop buying the product for their kids.

[EricHVela]

Chapter 9 of the DMG explains one of many ways of how to bring advanced technology into campaigns including guns.

Chapters 8 and 9 of the DMG are all about customizing the experiences, which means they're DM tools. Larian has opted for customizations that don't include guns.

Maybe next time, but just remember: Guns are optional by the DM's discretion, not yours.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by spasti696969:

It's also interrelated with a business decision, since they would almost certainly lose numbers if they added guns because left leaning parents would stop buying the product for their kids.

I think you mean liberal. Most of the left-leaning people I've spoken to don't believe the proletariat should be disarmed, and that such efforts should be frustrated by any means.

[Ghost]

To be clear, guns do exist in the Forgotten Realms setting, they're just very rare, though not actual gunpowder or what we'd generally call 'modern' weapons. The TSR execs were against them.

Smokepowder was eventually brought in with Spelljammer. There are primitive firearms like muskets and arquebuses, bombard canons and mortars. Even laser guns.