Dror Ragzlin - impossible to kill without generating hostility in the camp

[Kamuizin]

So, among the 3 leaders, i made a long test to stealth kill Dror Ragzlin without generating hostilities in the goblin camp, no e successful.

After 4 hours trying, my last attempt was to clean the entire room besides him (kill other goblins is ok, unless you’re caught in the act), put 3 powder kegs around him, dropping an alchemy’s fire nearby and summoning a familiar.

I left the goblin camp completely, leaving only the familiar in the room. Just forced attack the alchemy fire, that blasted, igniting the powder kegs (and granting me a tactican inspiration for Lae’zel in the process).

The familiar instantly dies, probably even before Dror Ragzlin, the acreen blacksout cos there’s no character in that map and reverse to where my party is. I still got the xp, but no deal, camp is hostile.

Is this on prupose? To kill Dror Ragzlin in the goblin camp is meant to make the entire camp hostile, no matter if i do it stealthly or not?

[Dude]

yes ragzlin death always results in all being hostile or more precise attacking him already triggers it

there is also a dialoque option that triggers it. so if you want to get the elf women make sure not to kill here you can still get her later or just reload an earlier savegame

[seeker1]

Yep. Intended. Killing Dror by any means, sucking him into a black hole, blowing him up with a barrel, hitting him while invisible ... doesn't matter who or how. You've just made the whole camp hostile. He seems to be the highest ranking of the 3 leaders, and you've just pissed off everyone.

[EricHVela]

It is that way by game design. I'm not so sure how it works in the story sense. I was able to take out all "witnesses" only to find out that the rest of the camp was aggro.

Sure. All the goblins consider specifically him to be their boss (even over the Goblin booyahg Gut), but how do they know? Is he like the Star Wars emperor whose influence extended over the entire army, causing the whole army to fall into disarray upon his (first) defeat? I didn't think tadpoles worked like that, but maybe they do?

Dunno. It takes a lot of filling-the-gaps to try to figure out why Dror's the "everyone goes insane" trigger.

[Kamuizin]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Yep. Intended. Killing Dror by any means, sucking him into a black hole, blowing him up with a barrel, hitting him while invisible ... doesn't matter who or how. You've just made the whole camp hostile. He seems to be the highest ranking of the 3 leaders, and you've just pissed off everyone.

This make the druid quest a bit of controversial.

Halsin is in the cellar of the camp and asked me to kill the 3 leaders. With my rogue i had a specific class banter saying i will do it stealthy, and asked him to wait me there.

But apparently the game forgot he doesn’t allow me to do that.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by EricHVela:

It is that way by game design. I'm not so sure how it works in the story sense. I was able to take out all "witnesses" only to find out that the rest of the camp was aggro.

Sure. All the goblins consider specifically him to be their boss (even over the Goblin booyahg Gut), but how do they know? Is he like the Star Wars emperor whose influence extended over the entire army, causing the whole army to fall into disarray upon his (first) defeat? I didn't think tadpoles worked like that, but maybe they do?

Dunno. It takes a lot of filling-the-gaps to try to figure out why Dror's the "everyone goes insane" trigger.

IT is implied that Dror was the leader of the goblin band before any of the absolute stuff happened, and that when he was infected, they also infected the priestess, then sent Minthara there after infecting her, to take control of them "as a force" while Dror remand the de-facto leader they followed.

It's like the Church sending a cerdinal to oversee a church that is led by whichever priest has the highest rank there.

I think the reason they know is because it happens in the Throneroom that has 2 massive doors leading outside.
Gut is killed in a tiny room (if you lead her away) and Minthara is killed in a sideroom, where there isnt much foot traffic anyway. (also it seems a lot of the goblins seem to not like Minthara if you use Detect Thoughts in Dialogue)

I mean, I dont have a massive problem with it, but it is surely something they might reconsider on at some point.

In the end, it's probably just a way to make sure you get the EXP from killing the goblins.

[RhiTheWitch]

Kill him last? Minty and Gut are easy to kill secretly, then release the spiders and pick of the rest of everyone in the camp then do Dror?

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

Originally posted by seeker1:

Yep. Intended. Killing Dror by any means, sucking him into a black hole, blowing him up with a barrel, hitting him while invisible ... doesn't matter who or how. You've just made the whole camp hostile. He seems to be the highest ranking of the 3 leaders, and you've just pissed off everyone.

This make the druid quest a bit of controversial.

Halsin is in the cellar of the camp and asked me to kill the 3 leaders. With my rogue i had a specific class banter saying i will do it stealthy, and asked him to wait me there.

But apparently the game forgot he doesn’t allow me to do that.

Didnt we have exactly this conversation before?

The idea is that the best way to be stealthy about it, is by not giving away that you are hostile immediatly.

If you think about it, it doesnt make a whole lot of sense either way.
If we account for "realism" then:
The fort would turn hostile the second someone tries to find gut.
The fort would turn hostile when for some reason the prison guards never come up to eat.
THe fort would turn hostile when they hear people shouting the verbal components for their spell in a booming voice.

Not being immediatly hostile means that you can engage dialogue, exit dialogue and set up whatever you need beforehand, which means you can attack from stealth. It doesnt mean though, that noone is going to notice the 3 big names are suddenly gone.

[seeker1]

Also bear in mind, any time a goblin hits a war drum, the whole camp is hostile.

If you're not ready to deal with that, taking out any goblin heading for a drum should be priority target 1.

[EricHVela]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

I think the reason they know is because it happens in the Throneroom that has 2 massive doors leading outside.
Gut is killed in a tiny room (if you lead her away) and Minthara is killed in a sideroom, where there isnt much foot traffic anyway. (also it seems a lot of the goblins seem to not like Minthara if you use Detect Thoughts in Dialogue)

The problem with that collides with the game's mechanics, then.

When all enemies tagged as witnesses (with the eyeball icon) are gone, the crime is ignored by everyone else. If a Field-of-View doesn't include the crime when the offending character is hidden and succeeds on the subsequent hide check, nobody else becomes a witness or hostile.

The game mechanics is aware of mobs stumbling in upon fallen allies and going into a kind of alert status, but that requires the fallen ally to enter into the field of view. The patrollers outside the room won't see the fallen enemies if done as efficiently as possible.

No matter how we look at it or try to reason it we get that Ludonarrative dissonance. It's a necessary part of gaming.

[Panda]

You should google before asking. (it's quite an easy question and pretty old one)
Yes, killing that npc triggers whole camp.
War drum = hostile camp.
You should also remember that every leader has a tadpole, goblins are under Absolute's will, killing the only agents of the camp will trigger typical goblin's behaviour - killing everything/trying to do so.

[Baldurs_Gate_2]

You can kill everyone else, as long as no goblin gets to the drums, they become only temp hostile. But attacking ragzlin, alerts everyone, so you should do him and the prison last.

[Iktah]

Dump 5 firewine/explosive barrels next to him, stealth, attack the barrels, problem ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ solved..

[Kamuizin]

Originally posted by Panda:

You should google before asking. (it's quite an easy question and pretty old one)
Yes, killing that npc triggers whole camp.
War drum = hostile camp.
You should also remember that every leader has a tadpole, goblins are under Absolute's will, killing the only agents of the camp will trigger typical goblin's behaviour - killing everything/trying to do so.

You should presume less before posting. It took me 4 hours of trying and dozens of searchs, because apparently in the past there was some methods viable that doesn’t work anymore.

[Toaster Maximus]

sheath destroy war drums save for the one next to the hobgoblin can mever get that one, but always get it after sitting up berrels around them , has for the drow need to save scum for her if she is still in camp but get the eye fiirst , but if you have a rouge and sorc should be able to take her with a range sheath and aoe quickly, make sure to use the one meta magic that makes spells quiet though

Sorry for typos and errors, but make sure to quietly take out some of the roamers also