Assassin - What's it good for?

[Quadsword]

All of assassin's class features are geared towards turn 1 burst damage. That's fine for shorter combats with fewer enemies, but any combat that lasts more than a few turns and you basically don't have a subclass anymore. Compare that to thief, who gets an extra bonus action they can make use of every single turn.

I want to use it because it's more thematically fitting for Astarion than the other rogue subclasses, but even pairing it with Gloomstalker ranger, I still get more mileage out of thief's extra bonus action than anything assassin can do.

[Shadow]

The main difficulty of fights come from how many actions the enemies can do against you. Doing more damage on the first turn can have a big impact on how the fight goes, because if you can kill 1 extra enemy early on, the fight becomes that much easier.

[Jet Uppercut]

Assassin is your fight initiator. Give them Alert feat so they're always at the top of the Initiative queue.

Since you initiate the fight from a Sneak Attack, the enemies are Surprised, so they eat guaranteed Crits. You also have Advantage against them since they haven't taken a turn, so you can Sneak Attack them even without being in Stealth.

Means you can very often get multiple kills off before a fight even starts.

[Quadsword]

Originally posted by Shadow:

The main difficulty of fights come from how many actions the enemies can do against you. Doing more damage on the first turn can have a big impact on how the fight goes, because if you can kill 1 extra enemy early on, the fight becomes that much easier.

In the early game, maybe. As the game goes on, HP pools get bigger, and AC gets higher. Bursting down enemies on the first turn becomes less viable as time goes on, at which point I prefer the consistency of thief over betting on surprise rounds or hoping Astarion doesn't roll snake eyes when he sneak attacks.

[Mutch]

not true, assassins if you have enough initiative to go before enemies are guaranteed advantage aka sneak attack without having foes near, or hiding. and if you follow Astarions story a little to get the cloak that makes you invisible when you kill a foe, makes for a strong pew pew hidey hide, though having another bonus action may provide more utility for other things, other than bosses assassin Astarion can 1 shot most mobs with the correct rangedb equipment, + consider shoving your parasites into him (this is even without titan bow an + str)

[Mutch]

Originally posted by Quadsword:

Originally posted by Shadow:

The main difficulty of fights come from how many actions the enemies can do against you. Doing more damage on the first turn can have a big impact on how the fight goes, because if you can kill 1 extra enemy early on, the fight becomes that much easier.

In the early game, maybe. As the game goes on, HP pools get bigger, and AC gets higher. Bursting down enemies on the first turn becomes less viable as time goes on, at which point I prefer the consistency of thief over betting on surprise rounds or hoping Astarion doesn't roll snake eyes when he sneak attacks.

its not just round 1.... its every round of combat that he is before an enemies he will get advantage

[Heretical_Cactus]

Originally posted by Mutch:

Originally posted by Quadsword:

In the early game, maybe. As the game goes on, HP pools get bigger, and AC gets higher. Bursting down enemies on the first turn becomes less viable as time goes on, at which point I prefer the consistency of thief over betting on surprise rounds or hoping Astarion doesn't roll snake eyes when he sneak attacks.

its not just round 1.... its every round of combat that he is before an enemies he will get advantage

He does ? I think that was bugged for me then, after round 1 Assassin's initiative was not there anymore

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by Heretical_Cactus:

Originally posted by Mutch:

its not just round 1.... its every round of combat that he is before an enemies he will get advantage

He does ? I think that was bugged for me then, after round 1 Assassin's initiative was not there anymore

It should only be for the first turn, anyway...

...which is a problem when you're dealing with enemies that start protected by Sanctuary or a large stack of Unstoppable.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Utter devastation! That's what, true and total devastation especially during surprise rounds lol

Add 2 points of paladin, and divine smite will auto trigger on your crits, I do some immense damage. I mean there are stronger builds I don't doubt it, but it's highly useful and powerful.

[Shadow]

Originally posted by Quadsword:

Originally posted by Shadow:

The main difficulty of fights come from how many actions the enemies can do against you. Doing more damage on the first turn can have a big impact on how the fight goes, because if you can kill 1 extra enemy early on, the fight becomes that much easier.

In the early game, maybe. As the game goes on, HP pools get bigger, and AC gets higher. Bursting down enemies on the first turn becomes less viable as time goes on, at which point I prefer the consistency of thief over betting on surprise rounds or hoping Astarion doesn't roll snake eyes when he sneak attacks.

"Take out the boss enemy on round 1 or 2" never stopped being a viable strategy for me.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by Shadow:

Originally posted by Quadsword:

In the early game, maybe. As the game goes on, HP pools get bigger, and AC gets higher. Bursting down enemies on the first turn becomes less viable as time goes on, at which point I prefer the consistency of thief over betting on surprise rounds or hoping Astarion doesn't roll snake eyes when he sneak attacks.

"Take out the boss enemy on round 1 or 2" never stopped being a viable strategy for me.

Honestly, mix assassin with 2 minimum in paladin, and you get an open turn with divine smites cuz crits and smiles are insane, mixed with the right weapons and gear.
I did 5 hunter 2 paladin 4 assassin and my openers are pretty intense, with colossus slayer added. Which may not be the best multi class it's just what I chose to do works wonders.

[brendan_in_china]

Assassin is as strong as a single class should be. The problem is that you're comparing it to the thief which is broken - they shouldn't even have the extra bonus action!

[Eternal President Uncle Slam]

You combine assassin rogue with gloom stalker ranger for round one and surprise round obliteration. This combo with Durge's invisibility cloak trivializes the game to an insane degree. They cannot hit you because you turn invisible after every kill and you get 3 whole turns to attack them (sneak attack, surprise round, and round one) before they can retaliate against you. Usually due to ranger being a speedy class you can even position yourself in such a way that they have to "dash" to even reach you, so likely won't even land a hit on you until round 2 or 3.

[Boss]

Basically it's sorta good for multiclassing. But it kinda sucks. Larian at least made it figuratively playable, tho. In 5e, it relies almost entirely on luck

[Riitoken]

Originally posted by Quadsword:

All of assassin's class features are geared towards turn 1 burst damage. That's fine for shorter combats with fewer enemies, but any combat that lasts more than a few turns and you basically don't have a subclass anymore. Compare that to thief, who gets an extra bonus action they can make use of every single turn.

I want to use it because it's more thematically fitting for Astarion than the other rogue subclasses, but even pairing it with Gloomstalker ranger, I still get more mileage out of thief's extra bonus action than anything assassin can do.

I agree. But even still the Rogue sneak attack, once combat surprise is resolved, feels out of place after turn 1. A Rogue can be standing directly in front of an enemy and do a "SNEAK" attack, even though the enemy awareness / senses / wisdom is in full swing. That is not sneaking, that's invisibility.

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Hunter>assassin