(Spoilers) Question about Orin and Dark Urge (Tons of Spoilers Warning)

[Al_Entity]

I absolutely loved Orin when she appeared late in act 2 and early act 3. Then I was so bummed that in her fight she took this Slayer/Monster form. I have always hated when humanoid characters turn to monsters. Yeah just a personal taste of mine I guess. So I was honestly a bit annoyed when such a cool character turned into this Tanky typical Act 2 type monster. It was a boring fight and more importantly for me it felt out of her kind of Hayley Quinn/ Joker / Riddler character.
I love it when fights are in theme with the character of the villain: Raphael ; Cazador ; Viconia ; are perfect examples of this.

However just the other day I noticed when a guy was playing as Dark Urge and challenged Orin for the Duel she did not change to that Slayer thing. But when some others fought her again for the 1 on 1 duel as the Dark Urge she turned into the Slayer.
Can anyone tell me how I stop her from changing to the Slayer is it linked to a decision I make?
I am currently playing as dark Urge Lolth Sworn Drow but on a redemption arc. I am wondering is there any chance I can get Orin to stay Orin for the fight? I dont care if it makes the duel easy or not (none of the fights are really all that tough to be honest) I just want her to stay in character and continue the banter. Like Raphael, Viconia, Cazodore and basically everyone else does while in her actual form.
I noticed when she was being Orin she would actually fight inline with her character always going invisible after a hit feeding into that chaotic cowardly evil narrative. It would be so thematic especially after I rattle her in the dialogue regarding her grandfather etc.

This would make her one of my favorite villains ever. So any pointers or info will help.

Basically is it possible under a redemption arc if I do not make the deal with Saravok and kill him; Do not Kill Isobel etc. You know after an early slightly evil start turning very much down the redemption line with jaheira.

[Kittybass]

I think the only way to fight her in human form is if you become the Slayer yourself, but that would involve killing Isobel.

[Moonbane]

The Slayer transform is a staple of being a Chosen of Bhaal. It also existed in BG2.

[Al_Entity]

Originally posted by Moonbane:

The Slayer transform is a staple of being a Chosen of Bhaal. It also existed in BG2.

Yeah I don't like it anywhere when it happens. For me a humanoid villain changing into a monster has always been annoying.
But guessing from how often it appears I am guessing it is popular. So I am OK if we are at least given the option to not let her transform. Just a personal preference.

[Al_Entity]

Originally posted by Kittybass:

I think the only way to fight her in human form is if you become the Slayer yourself, but that would involve killing Isobel.

You know in the video I saw the Dark Urge was also in human form. So I not sure. Hopefully someone will know all the alternatives.

But you make a good point like there can be only one who can transfer. So if you have it she doesn't. Then maybe he didn't transform as a choice resulting in humanoid vs humanoid fight. Of course not sure.
But that would mean I have to kill Isobel right. That socks.

[Kittybass]

I've only played DUrges. If you're the Slayer, you can choose to transform or not. She will turn into a slayer too if you provoke or taunt her into it, or rather, Bhaal forces her to transform into a Slayer, so you could have a slayer on slayer duel if you wanted, or human on human. If you just get right into the fight without picking dialog options that will trigger her. If you talk to Sarevok, read his journals, or snoop around Orin's room before the duel, you can find things to bring up to her just before the duel starts. But if you want a human on human duel, just go right into the fight and don't provoke her.

EDIT: I also wanted to add, sometimes I wait until Moonrise Towers is done, then I snipe Isobel in the tower, where everyone meets after beating Ketheric. That way, you don't lose the last light inn, Harpers, Jaheira, tieflings, gnomes, etc. But it does involve killing Isobel. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't. I prefer dueling her in humanoid form too. I'm about to do that in my save shortly. I didn't take the slayer form this time so I'll be fighting her slayer form. I'm a druid so I wonder if I can use the owlbear crush on her.

[Al_Entity]

Originally posted by Kittybass:

I've only played DUrges. If you're the Slayer, you can choose to transform or not. She will turn into a slayer too if you provoke or taunt her into it, or rather, Bhaal forces her to transform into a Slayer, so you could have a slayer on slayer duel if you wanted, or human on human. If you just get right into the fight without picking dialog options that will trigger her. If you talk to Sarevok, read his journals, or snoop around Orin's room before the duel, you can find things to bring up to her just before the duel starts. But if you want a human on human duel, just go right into the fight and don't provoke her.

EDIT: I also wanted to add, sometimes I wait until Moonrise Towers is done, then I snipe Isobel in the tower, where everyone meets after beating Ketheric. That way, you don't lose the last light inn, Harpers, Jaheira, tieflings, gnomes, etc. But it does involve killing Isobel. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't. I prefer dueling her in humanoid form too. I'm about to do that in my save shortly. I didn't take the slayer form this time so I'll be fighting her slayer form. I'm a druid so I wonder if I can use the owlbear crush on her.

You ONLY played Dark Urge! Interesting :)
Thanks a lot for the information.

So according to you if I play the redemption arc and not kill Isobel then as I will not get Slayer form and then Orin will most definitely turn as I do not have Slayer form ? or even then as per what you say if I directly start fight without aggravating her , will she stay Orin?
Or do you need to get the Slayer form always by killing Isobel (or have SH kill Nightsong) and then also directly fight Orin? For human vs human fight.

I know that if you dig those stuff up (in my non-Dark urge play through) about Orin you can provoke and rattle her which is super fun. There I remember trying to do directly into the fight as well as provoking her both resulted her turning to Slayer form. So my assessment is if you are Not Durge Orin will always be Slayer form.

So it seems in summary:
If you are NOT Durge then NO Orin Human form
If you do NOT kill Isobel (or Shaowheart does not will Nightsong) then NO Slayer for you. As a result NO Orin human form fight again.
If you only get Slayer form and not transform and then also not provoke her you get the human vs human fight.
Wow that is a lot of IFs! LOL

How about you have no slayer form. Redemption arc. But directly provoke her you think there is a chance of a human vs human fight? I so hope so :)

My best case scenario was : DU redemption. Not Kill Isobel. Kill Sarevok. Provoke and Rattle Orin. Then beat her in Human Vs Human fight! That would have been super cool if it was allowed. It will have such a nice story arc to it. Like after Orin's antics you redeem yourself and then beat the Unchosen one in her own form and embarrass her. Then go on to beat the absolute. I hope Larian makes this a possibility.

BTW I did see this video and I am super confused:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qz-rPtvyhE

Check it out it seems he is a DURGE who got slayer form but didnt transform. But he does converse with Orin without starting the fight. Yet Orin keeps human form to fight! Now I am thinking is there some RNG!

Do let me know anything else you can find out as you seem to be a DURGE expert.
EDIT:
BTW do respond to my ranking thread if you can love to here your perspective being The dark Urge all the time and all.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1086940/discussions/0/4034727620340655729/

LOL at you killing poor Isobel at Moonrise! I love Isobel she is one of my favorite characters, I do wish she had some story that does into Act 3. I think she is under used. She is like the Anti-BhallSpawn Anti-Shar character for me.

[Moonbane]

Theres a second way to gain the Slayer, killing the Nightsong instead. But Isobel loses control over the moonshield, dooming everyone.

[Al_Entity]

Originally posted by Moonbane:

Theres a second way to gain the Slayer, killing the Nightsong instead. But Isobel loses control over the moonshield, dooming everyone.

Hey check out the video i sent what do you think he did there?
Feels like he was a DU who killed Isobel. Then provoked Orin but still got the fight.

Yeah so no good way to be the Slayer. Go figure! LOL

[Kittybass]

You will only fight her in human form if you're the slayer. You getting the slayer form means she won't have it--unless you push her buttons and she starts freaking out, then Bhaal will force her into the slayer form before the duel starts. I think that only happens if you keep pressing her about Sarevok and she'll say that everything she did was form him and then Bhaal's like "no, you did it for me" and then he forces her to transform.

The only way to fight her in human form is by you having the slayer form. Which means someone has to die, whether it be Isobel or Nightsong. But you can kill Isobel after the Ketheric fight is over to avoid everyone at the Inn dying. You have to be a bit sneaky about it but you can do it. Unless it's been patched out. It can be a little buggy but it is a way to become a Slayer without dooming everyone, but it still means someone has to die.

But yeah, unfortunately there isn't a way to fight her in human form unless you're the slayer.

[Al_Entity]

Originally posted by Kittybass:

You will only fight her in human form if you're the slayer. You getting the slayer form means she won't have it--unless you push her buttons and she starts freaking out, then Bhaal will force her into the slayer form before the duel starts. I think that only happens if you keep pressing her about Sarevok and she'll say that everything she did was form him and then Bhaal's like "no, you did it for me" and then he forces her to transform.

The only way to fight her in human form is by you having the slayer form. Which means someone has to die, whether it be Isobel or Nightsong. But you can kill Isobel after the Ketheric fight is over to avoid everyone at the Inn dying. You have to be a bit sneaky about it but you can do it. Unless it's been patched out. It can be a little buggy but it is a way to become a Slayer without dooming everyone, but it still means someone has to die.

But yeah, unfortunately there isn't a way to fight her in human form unless you're the slayer.

Thanks for clearing it up.
Obviously I wished there was some other way for me to fight Orin human to human as I pointed out in OP for reasons.

I am.glad now I know atleast how to :)

[EricHVela]

Third option to get the "tithe" (Slayer form) from Fel: Kill neither Isobel nor Nightsong and, instead, kill the chosen party member once Fel shows up at camp a little disappointed that Isobel survived. (This visit can happen any time after the fight at the top of the tower. Ketheric doesn't have to be dead, yet, but both Isobel and Nightsong have to be alive when confronting Ketheric in combat the first time. Before going into the hive, you can long rest and it might trigger Fel's "second chance" visit.)

[Kittybass]

Yes, there's that way too but I've never done it. Either your love interest or closest party member will die instead. But the bottom line is someone has to die in order to get the Slayer form.

Sometimes I go out of my way to get the Slayer form because Orin acts so smug and clever about how she took your place. I have it just so she isn't Daddy's Chosen. I want her to know she'll always be second best, haha.

But I do actually prefer fighting her in human form to the slayer.