Slow progression, how turn something spectacular in a mediocre product

[Naylind]

Holy bananas i played for around 20 hours and still lvl 4. This game possess all the element to be a masterpiece ruined by this insanely slow progression. And yeah don't forget the loot 90% weapons wich don't get any space to armors and such. It's an enjoyable disaster btw.

[Namdoolb]

First thing I do have to say is: 20 hours and still lvl 4: that is a lot of game hours to still be at level 4, even by the standards of this game. So either we have a completionist who's trying to find every last thing in act 1, or someone who is genuinely struggling with the game (no judgement).

Bg3 is a long game, and it only goes to level 12. Gaining xp & leveling up is gonna take a while.
I much prefer the slower levelling to the alternative of getting a bunch of xp in the early game & then being at max level for 90% of the game content - that sounds terrible.

When I look back on the d&d based games that I've played over the years (there have been a few, starting with og baldur's gate) the ones that I have enjoyed the most are the ones that kept the kept the level progression reasonable & didn't get into excessively high character levels before the end of the game. Most games that level your character into the stratosphere are very quickly followed by me losing interest.

So, in that vein, I also agree with the decision to cap the characters at level 12.

In short, I see no problem with having to work for your xp & character levels; if it didn't take any effort to acquire then it's not worth anything.

[Naylind]

Originally posted by id795078477:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

You've never played DnD, have you?

Totally irrelevant. Earlier DnD games like NWN 1 didn't have this issue. 20 hours there would be plenty enough to be level 9-10 in OC. And some addons even start you at level 15.
It's a 5e "innovation" that made it so.

Originally posted by Noisy Toy King:

Skill issue

Typical response of a fanoboy-trollboy. Not helping OP though. And not helping to popularize the game.

From me:
While OP is just expecting something that's simply not there when it comes to leveling (so that can't be "fixed"), he is totally on point with weapons and armors. Those are absolutely unimaginative and only have a couple of decent options. And mind me - when those "decent options" are found, it's almost impossible to find any alternatives.

As for the leveling - well, not much could be done there. What you can try is modding, but results might not be satisfactory. There are mods that:
1. Increase level cap. Obviously, they adjust XP gain.
2. Allow to get feats more frequently (every 2 or even every 1 level)

This will of course shift the balance too much. So I would recommend some moderate option with more feats - say, every 2 levels, but then also install mods which raise difficulty:
1. Better AI mods
2. Tougher encounters mods
or something of a sort. It's unfortunate, but yeah, not much you can do about it. Vanilla leveling is really boring in this game.

thanks for the advice buddy i will give a look after i finish the game on vanilla.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Namdoolb:

First thing I do have to say is: 20 hours and still lvl 4: that is a lot of game hours to still be at level 4, even by the standards of this game. So either we have a completionist who's trying to find every last thing in act 1, or someone who is genuinely struggling with the game (no judgement).

Bg3 is a long game, and it only goes to level 12. Gaining xp & leveling up is gonna take a while.
I much prefer the slower levelling to the alternative of getting a bunch of xp in the early game & then being at max level for 90% of the game content - that sounds terrible.

When I look back on the d&d based games that I've played over the years (there have been a few, starting with og baldur's gate) the ones that I have enjoyed the most are the ones that kept the kept the level progression reasonable & didn't get into excessively high character levels before the end of the game. Most games that level your character into the stratosphere are very quickly followed by me losing interest.

So, in that vein, I also agree with the decision to cap the characters at level 12.

In short, I see no problem with having to work for your xp & character levels; if it didn't take any effort to acquire then it's not worth anything.

If we're dealing with a completionist then they should be level 5 or 6 at 20 hours because that should be the Emerald Grove, the first dungeon, the Blighted Village, the spider cave, the Swamp, the gnolls and at least a decent chunk of the Underdark taken care of.

It could be DSP, who spends most of his time while streaming the game looking at his chat and asking to be told what to do and it took him 13 hours to get to the Harpy fight, never long rested because he was afraid of using up supplies and still doesn't understand the mechanics because he's not trying to learn he was trying to be handheld.

[myxlmynx]

Progression isn't "slow", the game is just big. You're levelling up appropriately fast. You'll reach level 12 at the beginning or middle of Act3 probably, and so you'll still have plenty of time to enjoy your max level power. The speed of the levelling progression is, thus, appropriate to the length of the game.

[Wokelander]

How to say "I'm addicted to video-game level up dopamine fix" without actually saying it 😅

[larhtas]

Originally posted by Naylind:

Originally posted by Noisy Toy King:

You spent 20 hrs, and are only level 4.

LITERAL SKILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ISSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUE

so, explain where is my issue.

Honestly it doesn't takes more than 4-6h to get to level 4.
I think that's what he means. And 4-6h it is only if you read everything and doesn't skip dialogs, otherwise it is less.

[Rommel]

Originally posted by id795078477:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

You've never played DnD, have you?

Totally irrelevant. Earlier DnD games like NWN 1 didn't have this issue. 20 hours there would be plenty enough to be level 9-10 in OC. And some addons even start you at level 15.
It's a 5e "innovation" that made it so.

Originally posted by Noisy Toy King:

Skill issue

Typical response of a fanoboy-trollboy. Not helping OP though. And not helping to popularize the game.

From me:
While OP is just expecting something that's simply not there when it comes to leveling (so that can't be "fixed"), he is totally on point with weapons and armors. Those are absolutely unimaginative and only have a couple of decent options. And mind me - when those "decent options" are found, it's almost impossible to find any alternatives.

As for the leveling - well, not much could be done there. What you can try is modding, but results might not be satisfactory. There are mods that:
1. Increase level cap. Obviously, they adjust XP gain.
2. Allow to get feats more frequently (every 2 or even every 1 level)

This will of course shift the balance too much. So I would recommend some moderate option with more feats - say, every 2 levels, but then also install mods which raise difficulty:
1. Better AI mods
2. Tougher encounters mods
or something of a sort. It's unfortunate, but yeah, not much you can do about it. Vanilla leveling is really boring in this game.

If they followed your advice everyone would be level 12 or close to it
by the time you enter act 2. Then all we would hear is why only 12 levels????
It's only act 2 and I'm maxed out wtf man add more levels who cares if it makes me god!

[Namdoolb]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

If we're dealing with a completionist then they should be level 5 or 6 at 20 hours because that should be the Emerald Grove, the first dungeon, the Blighted Village, the spider cave, the Swamp, the gnolls and at least a decent chunk of the Underdark taken care of.

It could be DSP, who spends most of his time while streaming the game looking at his chat and asking to be told what to do and it took him 13 hours to get to the Harpy fight, never long rested because he was afraid of using up supplies and still doesn't understand the mechanics because he's not trying to learn he was trying to be handheld.

Don't get me wrong: at level 4 they've probably not got much further than the druid enclave. Possibly got to the blighted village, maybe even the goblin encampment (depends how much looking around in the world they've done). To drag that out to 20 hours is a feat in itself - Most players (even first timers) are gonna get there in less than 5 (being a little generous there).

It's also possible that 20 hours to level 4 contains some degree of hyperbole or exaggeration.... or some combination of all 3 factors, or other factors we haven't even considered. (maybe they left the game running and went to sleep.)

Without a detailed description from OP we're never going to know the exact details.

People coming in the thread & yelling "skill issue" are not really helping things; that's more what I was getting at with that first paragraph.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Namdoolb:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

If we're dealing with a completionist then they should be level 5 or 6 at 20 hours because that should be the Emerald Grove, the first dungeon, the Blighted Village, the spider cave, the Swamp, the gnolls and at least a decent chunk of the Underdark taken care of.

It could be DSP, who spends most of his time while streaming the game looking at his chat and asking to be told what to do and it took him 13 hours to get to the Harpy fight, never long rested because he was afraid of using up supplies and still doesn't understand the mechanics because he's not trying to learn he was trying to be handheld.

Don't get me wrong: at level 4 they've probably not got much further than the druid enclave. Possibly got to the blighted village, maybe even the goblin encampment (depends how much looking around in the world they've done). To drag that out to 20 hours is a feat in itself - Most players (even first timers) are gonna get there in less than 5 (being a little generous there).

It's also possible that 20 hours to level 4 contains some degree of hyperbole or exaggeration.... or some combination of all 3 factors, or other factors we haven't even considered. (maybe they left the game running and went to sleep.)

Without a detailed description from OP we're never going to know the exact details.

People coming in the thread & yelling "skill issue" are not really helping things; that's more what I was getting at with that first paragraph.

True, which is why I'm talking about the 20 hours thing. The ONLY person I can think of who takes this long is DSP, and he is basically begging the chat to make all his decisions for him and hold his hand because he has absolutely no interest in learning the game or how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msns4-0l0fo&t=23s

[AvG]

Originally posted by Naylind:

Holy bananas i played for around 20 hours and still lvl 4. This game possess all the element to be a masterpiece ruined by this insanely slow progression. And yeah don't forget the loot 90% weapons wich don't get any space to armors and such. It's an enjoyable disaster btw.

its due to how levels are handled in lore for the universes we are playing in, from the books:

Tier 1 (Levels 1-4): Local Heroes Tier 2 (Levels 5-10): Heroes of the Realm Tier 3 (Levels 11-16): Masters of the Realm Tier 4 (Levels 17-20): Masters of the World

The higher tiers are very game breaking, usually demi-god approaching and not to be taken lightly which is probably why they kept you to reaching level 12 in this game. Reaching level 5 and entering the next tier takes effort. The experience you get is also related to their true level I think, which is why by reaching level 4, if you kill some level 1s or level 2s you won't get that much out of it, just the standard 10-15 exp. Solving or resolving quests can feed you a lot of exp in some cases, and sometimes resolving a battle without fighting will give you the same experience as killing them all.

Besides game balance reasons (getting 7th-8th level spells in this game would totally break everything) they wanted to leave the door open for a continuation of the story perhaps someday.

[Naylind]

so now i complete the game and i can tell whats going on on this title. Thing is until you reach level 5 wich unlock the bonus action the party will struggle a lot to do stuff. Now the number of enemies you have to face initially are really small respect to what have you to stand in the act 3 of course but the party health pool should be increase a bit. I played with only base class, no mixing sublasses etc. Wyll as warlock i choose the pact weapon and to be honest need some kind of improvement like the beast for the ranger, they suck initially and later they become more than useful. And The worlock as class looks a bit underwhelming respec any other, Ammond Jerro was a cool warlock Wyll the balde of frontier he is a frigging joke in comparison.
I just want to try the sorcerer since wizard can use the same spell until they run out of use wich exacly what the sorcerer does in 3.5. They should really work on the spell the character receive especially if u are specialized in a school of magic. Clerics, holy bananas in 3.5 they make you tremble, here attack or use a spell toss a coin, and i don't know if it's a D&D 5.0 rules or Larian work but all the frigging attack spell or not have chance to hit wich suck. some i can't recognize if are the mechanic stupid or it's a bug, example. Shoot a elemental arrow like lightning, the arrow hit then trigger saving throw for the elemental damage where i'm sure in this case there's no saving, the arrow hit, you get the damage of both. And some other shenanigans like Elves could be put to magical sleep while they should be immune.

[Tay of the Lor]

Originally posted by Naylind:

Holy bananas i played for around 20 hours and still lvl 4. This game possess all the element to be a masterpiece ruined by this insanely slow progression. And yeah don't forget the loot 90% weapons wich don't get any space to armors and such. It's an enjoyable disaster btw.

I think people messing around too much in these games and trying to do every little thing is the problem - I have around 20-22 in game hours played, I'm level 5 and I just started Act 2. Personally, I think the progression is fine and compared to Divinity: OS2 (which I got bored of), I feel its much quicker.

The DnD comment was accurate though because the first for levels are very fast compared to level 5 and upwards.

[daveyfunk]

I think the issue is more so how quickly you get through the first few levels. There's a video where you can basically get to level 4 pretty easily with no combat. Then the gap between 4-5 and so on is pretty big

[Aeriar]

Depending how you procede, being level 4 after about 20 hours seems quite fine to me? I usually get close to level 5 at that point, or at least I know I get the tiefling party usually around 16-17 hours of (relatively completionist - looking everywhere, looting everything) gameplay, still level 4, and I reach level 5 by returning and killing the rest of the goblin camp. Finishing the whole first zone (hopefully not skipping anything important) I'm still level 5 and well above 20 hours.

[✙205🍉🐆→]

low level up > fast level up