Spell DC From Items?

[seanj.plunkett]

Hello, all. Can someone please explain what spell save DC (or attack roll) is used from magic items and scrolls?

If it's based on the character using them, what if it's a BM fighter or some other pure martial non-caster?

Thanks!

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Not sure what you're asking exactly, but here's the best BG3 Wiki...

https://bg3.wiki/

[Sentient_Toaster]

Specifically

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Scrolls#How_scrolls_work

The Attack roll and the Difficulty Class of the Saving throw from scrolls always benefit from your current Proficiency Bonus and your class's Spellcasting Ability Modifier, even if your class cannot normally cast spells.

combined with

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Spells#Spellcasting_ability

Every class – including those without the Spellcasting feature – has a designated ability known as their spellcasting ability, which represents their capacity to cast spells.

Intelligence: Fighter, Rogue, Wizard.
Wisdom: Cleric, Druid, Monk, Range
Charisma: Barbarian, Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, Warlock.

Spells learned from taking levels in a class will use that class' spellcasting ability modifier. Spells from other sources use the spellcasting ability of the class the creature most recently took a first level in.

So, for a pure fighter, it's based on intelligence.

This is very different from tabletop, where
(a) you cannot use a spell scroll at all unless the spell is on at least one of your class lists, and
(b) the spell DC / attack modifier depends only on the level of the spell, rather than any stat of the caster ( https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/5418-spell-scroll )

[Maraxus]

Some spells use an attack roll(very much like a weapon attack) that uses your spellcasting modifier as a bonus(or penalty) vs the enemy Armor Class. Other spells have a difficulty class that the enemy has to roll against with one of their abilities(strength, dex, etc), these are called saving throws(that are also buffed by your spellcasting modifier) and if the target passes the roll it can mitigate or outright cancel the effect. Each spell is different and has all the details in it's description.

[seanj.plunkett]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Specifically

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Scrolls#How_scrolls_work

The Attack roll and the Difficulty Class of the Saving throw from scrolls always benefit from your current Proficiency Bonus and your class's Spellcasting Ability Modifier, even if your class cannot normally cast spells.

combined with

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Spells#Spellcasting_ability

Every class – including those without the Spellcasting feature – has a designated ability known as their spellcasting ability, which represents their capacity to cast spells.

Intelligence: Fighter, Rogue, Wizard.
Wisdom: Cleric, Druid, Monk, Range
Charisma: Barbarian, Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, Warlock.

Spells learned from taking levels in a class will use that class' spellcasting ability modifier. Spells from other sources use the spellcasting ability of the class the creature most recently took a first level in.

So, for a pure fighter, it's based on intelligence.

This is very different from tabletop, where
(a) you cannot use a spell scroll at all unless the spell is on at least one of your class lists, and
(b) the spell DC / attack modifier depends only on the level of the spell, rather than any stat of the caster ( https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/5418-spell-scroll )

Very clear and succinct, thank you! That's a big help.

[seanj.plunkett]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Spells from other sources use the spellcasting ability of the class the creature most recently took a first level in.

I just caught this part, and it seems to me someone can accidentally nerf their spells (from items) into oblivion.

For example: imagine a level 6 Sorcerer with 8 intelligence who decides to take a 1 level dip into Fighter for armor and weapons proficiencies. All spells from scrolls and items will be based on 8 (-1) Intelligence. But a Bard who takes a level or two of Warlock would be fine.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

They should have just used the highest spell save DC a character could have. It would have simplified things.

[seanj.plunkett]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

They should have just used the highest spell save DC a character could have. It would have simplified things.

Agreed. Has this been discussed before?

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by seanj.plunkett:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

They should have just used the highest spell save DC a character could have. It would have simplified things.

Agreed. Has this been discussed before?

I don't think so, it's the first I've heard of it.

[Doom_Cookies]

Originally posted by seanj.plunkett:

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Spells from other sources use the spellcasting ability of the class the creature most recently took a first level in.

I just caught this part, and it seems to me someone can accidentally nerf their spells (from items) into oblivion.

I did exactly this for most of my current run. I'm playing Paladin 6/Warlock 5/Cleric 1, and of course that 1-level Cleric dip was my last levelup. It took me most of Act III (I have like 2-3 sidequests left, and misc. city exploration) to realize all my non-spell-slot Spell Save DCs were scaling with my 10 Wisdom instead of my 22 Charisma.

I was also the character carrying all of my scrolls. Go figure.

[seanj.plunkett]

Originally posted by Doom_Cookies:

Originally posted by seanj.plunkett:

I just caught this part, and it seems to me someone can accidentally nerf their spells (from items) into oblivion.

I did exactly this for most of my current run. I'm playing Paladin 6/Warlock 5/Cleric 1, and of course that 1-level Cleric dip was my last levelup. It took me most of Act III (I have like 2-3 sidequests left, and misc. city exploration) to realize all my non-spell-slot Spell Save DCs were scaling with my 10 Wisdom instead of my 22 Charisma.

I was also the character carrying all of my scrolls. Go figure.

Oh wow lol

I guess we have a pro tip now. If you're multi-classing, you may need to re-spec to have the class with your desired spell ability score last.