I wonder if noble stalk could cure a normal illithid tadpole infestation?

[Senkoau]

We get told it can cure all sorts of things including baldness. Whic gets me wondering could it also cure a normal illithid tadpole infestation? What do people think?

[Recjawjind]

Origineel geplaatst door Hobocop:

This is has been talked about before months and months ago. Garden variety ceremorphosis would have been long finished before the characters had gotten past the grove, and the only recorded way to cure it is in the early stages with complete cranial destruction then reviving them with resurrection or true resurrection. Beyond that, you need stuff like wish.

Reincarnate would work too, that's the lowest level solution.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Origineel geplaatst door Recjawjind:

Origineel geplaatst door Pan Darius Loveless:

You mean like a lvl 12 Clwric who can cast Greater Restoration, for example? 🤔

Even greater resto would definitely NOT cut it. The spell very explicitly explains what it fixes, and a tadpole falls under none of those categories. You'd look at requiring something like reincarnate at the earliest. Kill the person, then reincarnate them.
Any resurrection below that won't cut it.
Wish would work, or divine intervention mimicking true resurrection would work too.

Actually since Elder Brain Dragons have tadpole breath...here is the cure to remove tadpoles:
"If the creature is targeted by magic that ends a curse or restores 40 hit points or more, the tadpoles infesting the creature are killed instantly, ending the effect on the creature."
(Quoted Caerwyn_Glyndwr's reply on dndbeyond)
So a Heal works, remove curse seems to work, Wish seems to also work...and being a level 8 paladin and using lay on hands?:D

Or in this case are these tadpoles not your usual tadpoles?:D And is it easier to remove a superior creatures (Elder brain+dragon vs pure Elder brain) tadpoles than a lesser one?:D

So if noblestalk is able to cure 40 points of damage or have remove curse it works?

[Recjawjind]

Origineel geplaatst door Nordil(Hun):

Origineel geplaatst door Recjawjind:

Even greater resto would definitely NOT cut it. The spell very explicitly explains what it fixes, and a tadpole falls under none of those categories. You'd look at requiring something like reincarnate at the earliest. Kill the person, then reincarnate them.
Any resurrection below that won't cut it.
Wish would work, or divine intervention mimicking true resurrection would work too.

Actually since Elder Brain Dragons have tadpole breath...here is the cure to remove tadpoles:
"If the creature is targeted by magic that ends a curse or restores 40 hit points or more, the tadpoles infesting the creature are killed instantly, ending the effect on the creature."
(Quoted Caerwyn_Glyndwr's reply on dndbeyond)
So a Heal works, remove curse seems to work, Wish seems to also work...and being a level 8 paladin and using lay on hands?:D

To be fair, Elder Brain Dragon tadpoles work very differently to regular ceremorphosis, you also get rid of them by making 3 successful saves, and they deal psychic damage to you every turn, as well as turning you in like 1/4th the regular time (6d12 hours, so on average in less than 2 days). It's like a hyper-accelerated, hyper-volatile version of a normal infection.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Origineel geplaatst door Recjawjind:

Origineel geplaatst door Nordil(Hun):

Actually since Elder Brain Dragons have tadpole breath...here is the cure to remove tadpoles:
"If the creature is targeted by magic that ends a curse or restores 40 hit points or more, the tadpoles infesting the creature are killed instantly, ending the effect on the creature."
(Quoted Caerwyn_Glyndwr's reply on dndbeyond)
So a Heal works, remove curse seems to work, Wish seems to also work...and being a level 8 paladin and using lay on hands?:D

To be fair, Elder Brain Dragon tadpoles work very differently to regular ceremorphosis, you also get rid of them by making 3 successful saves, and they deal psychic damage to you every turn, as well as turning you in like 1/4th the regular time (6d12 hours, so on average in less than 2 days. It's like a hyper-accelerated, hyper-volatile version of a normal infection.

So a superior creatures tadpoles are easier to get rid than the normal ones. Got it.
Allthough i wonder if you keep casting regenerate like every 6 day on a tadpole infested person, are you able to prevent ceremorphosis? Since you...grow back the eaten brain cells:D

[Recjawjind]

Origineel geplaatst door Nordil(Hun):

So a superior creatures tadpoles are easier to get rid than the normal ones. Got it.
Allthough i wonder if you keep casting regenerate like every 6 day on a tadpole infested person, are you able to prevent ceremorphosis? Since you...grow back the eaten brain cells:D

That IS a very funny idea, I suppose the question is if the process is actually considered damage to your body, since ceremorphosis also includes lots of other symptoms as your body undergoes a severe... "restructuring"

[The_Dipl0mat]

Origineel geplaatst door Recjawjind:

Origineel geplaatst door Nordil(Hun):

So a superior creatures tadpoles are easier to get rid than the normal ones. Got it.
Allthough i wonder if you keep casting regenerate like every 6 day on a tadpole infested person, are you able to prevent ceremorphosis? Since you...grow back the eaten brain cells:D

That IS a very funny idea, I suppose the question is if the process is actually considered damage to your body, since ceremorphosis also includes lots of other symptoms as your body undergoes a severe... "restructuring"

I feel like the soul aspect plays a part in it. Your soul determines your body shape maybe? So its kinda like hitting a reset

[Recjawjind]

Origineel geplaatst door The_Dipl0mat:

I feel like the soul aspect plays a part in it. Your soul determines your body shape maybe? So its kinda like hitting a reset

Ah now we are gettin' in some jujutsu kaisen ass territory X3
Though I don't believe thats how it works in dnd, considering reincarnate is a spell that works. Your soul can absolutely inhabit a body permanently that it wasnt initially intended for.
(though, I feel like getting reincarnated into a different race would in many cases lead to some serious dysphoria..)

[The_Dipl0mat]

Origineel geplaatst door Recjawjind:

Origineel geplaatst door The_Dipl0mat:

I feel like the soul aspect plays a part in it. Your soul determines your body shape maybe? So its kinda like hitting a reset

Ah now we are gettin' in some jujutsu kaisen ass territory X3
Though I don't believe thats how it works in dnd, considering reincarnate is a spell that works. Your soul can absolutely inhabit a body permanently that it wasnt initially intended for.
(though, I feel like getting reincarnated into a different race would in many cases lead to some serious dysphoria..)

Human turned dragonborn: Jerry. Where are my balls

[Dragon Master]

Origineel geplaatst door Senkoau:

Origineel geplaatst door Dragon Master:

No, it would not.

A normal tadpole would require at least Greater Restoration, which is why most druids and clerics can't heal it because most druid and clerics don't get that powerful in the setting. It's a very, very select few who get past level 4 at all.

In fact, when D&D was first established it was supposed to be that half of all adventurers at level 1 would ever live to see level 2, half of all level 2 adventurers would live to see level 3 and so on. Most would retire by level 10-12, usually as the head of a guild, the commander of a knightly order, the head of a thieves guild and so on.

Greater Restoration is only possible to cast upon reaching 9th level, so we're talking about the literal 1 in a million types of people here. And all this is before the Netherese magic altered the tadpoles.

After the transformation happens, only the most powerful spell in the whole game, a 9th level spell called wish, can restore a person because it would require bringing a soul back that had been consumed and that would take a literal godlike miracle that only a 9th level spell can achieve, and that's the domain of demigods, gods, devils and demons.

I'm aware of that however the noble stalk is a very rare mushroom found in the underdark (very dangerous) which is specifically stated to be a cure all. "Restores a creature to full health and removes all conditions that negatively affect it when consumed. " Just eating the thing with no preperation heals Balen's brain damage which to me makes me think its at least on par with greater restoration. Possibly even heal + greater restororation. We only find one in the under dark and that is enough to save the Bonecloak's store from bankrupcy.

Whether greater restoration can heal a normal ilithid tadpole is another discussion. I'm just wondering how powerful these mushroom's are?

Noble stalk is a very powerful healing reagent and very rare. Doesn't make it powerful enough for something that requires Great Restoration for the earliest cure possible.

[Recjawjind]

Origineel geplaatst door Dragon Master:

Noble stalk is a very powerful healing reagent and very rare. Doesn't make it powerful enough for something that requires Great Restoration for the earliest cure possible.

I (very) severely doubt greater resto would work against regular tadpoles. It would definitely work against elder brain dragon tadpoles, but those work entirely differently. Extreme volatility in exchange for massively accelerated turning rate.

[Dragon Master]

Origineel geplaatst door Recjawjind:

Origineel geplaatst door Dragon Master:

Noble stalk is a very powerful healing reagent and very rare. Doesn't make it powerful enough for something that requires Great Restoration for the earliest cure possible.

I (very) severely doubt greater resto would work against regular tadpoles. It would definitely work against elder brain dragon tadpoles, but those work entirely differently. Extreme volatility in exchange for massively accelerated turning rate.

Okay.

Whatever the case is though, the point is this, it basically takes a god to cure someone from mind flayers. Or someone so powerful that they can cast 9th level spells.

[Recjawjind]

Origineel geplaatst door Dragon Master:

Okay.

Whatever the case is though, the point is this, it basically takes a god to cure someone from mind flayers. Or someone so powerful that they can cast 9th level spells.

If you get to them before they go trough very late stage ceremorphosis, reincarnate would work as the lowest level option. Anything that is capable of creating a new body.

[Dragon Master]

Origineel geplaatst door Recjawjind:

Origineel geplaatst door Dragon Master:

Okay.

Whatever the case is though, the point is this, it basically takes a god to cure someone from mind flayers. Or someone so powerful that they can cast 9th level spells.

If you get to them before they go trough very late stage ceremorphosis, reincarnate would work as the lowest level option. Anything that is capable of creating a new body.

That would be the cheapest option, certainly. Also expensive with rare oils and metals worth at least 1,000 gold coins, all of which get consumed by the spell, and the player character randomly changes race based on a d100 roll.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Origineel geplaatst door Dragon Master:

Origineel geplaatst door Recjawjind:

I (very) severely doubt greater resto would work against regular tadpoles. It would definitely work against elder brain dragon tadpoles, but those work entirely differently. Extreme volatility in exchange for massively accelerated turning rate.

Okay.

Whatever the case is though, the point is this, it basically takes a god to cure someone from mind flayers. Or someone so powerful that they can cast 9th level spells.

Actually apparantly killing the dude, removeing the tadpole (trepanning) and then resurrecting and healing also works. So a level 13 cleric should be good?

Or just ....make the person enter magical sleep, drill a hole in his head remove the tadpole...and regen?:D

[Recjawjind]

Origineel geplaatst door Dragon Master:

That would be the cheapest option, certainly. Also expensive with rare oils and metals worth at least 1,000 gold coins, all of which get consumed by the spell, and the player character randomly changes race based on a d100 roll.

Yep it'd be a done deal. First find someone high enough level to cast it, then buy n number of casts from them.
Without the netherese adaptation to the tadpoles, you'd be done (too sick to adventure and make money) by the time youre about ready to leave the grove again for the first time.