How strong is Raphael lorewise?

[Is This Your Card? 69]

So Im curious about a lot of things, and I usually am not into lore that much but that changed after I played BG3.

So, how strong is Raphael compared to other devils we've seen and haven't seen.
Is he stronger than i.e. Mizora? What about Zariel?
Haven't really finished the game yet, me and my friend are very early in Act lll but I don't care if you spoil it as long as my curiosity regarding my question is sated.

Also what's his status in Hell?

[Anima Mundi]

Mizora is just a cambion. Zariel is the literal ruler of the first layer of hell, a fallen angel turned devil.
Raph is also a devil, but he aint ruling a whole realm.
I actually don't know the lore all that well, just talking out of my rear end. But this is true

[Agent Chieftain]

Originally posted by Anima Mundi:

Mizora is just a cambion. Zariel is the literal ruler of the first layer of hell, a fallen angel turned devil.
Raph is also a devil, but he aint ruling a whole realm.
I actually don't know the lore all that well, just talking out of my rear end. But this is true

Pretty sure Raphael is also a cambion. He just has comparable strength to a devil.

[Recjawjind]

Definitely stronger than Mizora.
Both are cambions, which normally aren't that powerful or influential.
Raphael however isn't unlike an adventurer, the regular, average joe has 4 hp and can't swing a weapon or cast a spell for ♥♥♥♥, but there are few that rise above their baseline and grow strong, Raphael is one such case.
He definitely can't take on archdevils though, if he could, he wouldn't need the crown of karsus. Zariel would roll him up and smoke him like a blunt, which is why he employs cunning.

[Is This Your Card? 69]

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

Definitely stronger than Mizora.
Both are cambions, which normally aren't that powerful or influential.
Raphael however isn't unlike an adventurer, the regular, average joe has 4 hp and can't swing a weapon or cast a spell for ♥♥♥♥, but there are few that rise above their baseline and grow strong, Raphael is one such case.
He definitely can't take on archdevils though, if he could, he wouldn't need the crown of karsus. Zariel would roll him up and smoke him like a blunt, which is why he employs cunning.

I see!
Does Raphael have a superior? Like Mizora is an underling of Zariel iirc?

[Recjawjind]

Originally posted by The way of 69:

I see!
Does Raphael have a superior? Like Mizora is an underling of Zariel iirc?

Raphael is in Avernus, so by the very nature of his residence there, he's technically an underling of Zariel.

[Iviene]

In the adventure book Descent to avernus are the stats of Zariel.

She has 580 HP. AC 21
STR 27, GES 24, KON 28, INT 26, Wis 27, CHA 30
Reistance to Fire, Gleaming, normal weapons that are not silver
Immunity to Poison, Cold, Necrotic
Immune to a lot of magic states

She has a lot of unlimited spells, like Fireball, Change appearance, invisility, bane to god and bad

Her flaming weapons do additional 8D8 damage.
She can pass Saving throws at will 3 times a day.
She regenerates 20 HP per round, gleaming stops the regeneration.
She only dies when she starts her turn with 0 HP and doesn´t regenerate.

2 attacks with her flail. +16 to hit, 2d8+8 damage
1 atrtack with her warhammer +16 to hit, 2d8+8 damage+3d6 cold damage.
All attacks get in addition the flaming damage of 8d8.
She can do a touch attack that does 8d10 nekrotic damage, makes blind and deaf and poisons. Constitution sage of 26 against it.
And she has legendary actions....if she looks at a target, she incinerates it, inflicting 4d10 damage. Wisdom safe of 26 against it.
She can teleport.

And of course she propably is never alone, and a lot of rather strong servants and soldiers are around her.

[Recjawjind]

Originally posted by Iviene:

In the adventure book Descent to avernus are the stats of Zariel.

She has 580 HP. AC 21
STR 27, GES 24, KON 28, INT 26, Wis 27, CHA 30
Reistance to Fire, Gleaming, normal weapons that are not silver
Immunity to Poison, Cold, Necrotic
Immune to a lot of magic states

She has a lot of unlimited spells, like Fireball, Change appearance, invisility, bane to god and bad

Her flaming weapons do additional 8D8 damage.
She can pass Saving throws at will 3 times a day.
She regenerates 20 HP per round, gleaming stops the regeneration.
She only dies when she starts her turn with 0 HP and doesn´t regenerate.

2 attacks with her flail. +16 to hit, 2d8+8 damage
1 atrtack with her warhammer +16 to hit, 2d8+8 damage+3d6 cold damage.
All attacks get in addition the flaming damage of 8d8.
She can do a touch attack that does 8d10 nekrotic damage, makes blind and deaf and poisons. Constitution sage of 26 against it.
And she has legendary actions....if she looks at a target, she incinerates it, inflicting 4d10 damage. Wisdom safe of 26 against it.
She can teleport.

And of course she propably is never alone, and a lot of rather strong servants and soldiers are around her.

RAW stats vs this game doesn't really work, a reasonably put together party in this game would, as I previously described, roll her into a blunt and smoke her with this stat block.
She wouldn't even stand a lick of a chance against level 12s.

[Iviene]

And exactly this is the reason why they stopped at level 12.

The D&D system is broken at some level, and there are no viable enemys left. When the arch devils, and greater demons are just an annoyance the basic system is tuned wrong Charakters become too powerful. To deliver at least a little bit of challenge, the party suddenly would need to fight the lords of hell + retinue, half gods and their angels etc.

And I am really glad larian decided to stop at level 12. Propably 10 would have been even a better plan.

[Drascar]

Since noone ever mentioned it in this thread, Raphael is the son of Mephistopfeles. Mephistopheles is the second strongest Archdevil and inventor of hellfire. Additionally by his ability to transform into an ascended fiend with easy and his capability of boosting himself with souls we can pretty easy determin that he is indeed a big shot when it comes to anything below demigods. But thats the thing he does not even have the title of a demigod yet (a title that as far as i know every ruler of a layer of hell has). Furthermore Mephistopheles had the crown and did not try to rebel against the ruler of the highest hell Asmodeus even though he did try in the past and failed. So while Raphael is definetly very strong and most certainly stronger then someone like Mizora he couldnt possibly try ruling the hells even with the crown.

[AnonymousWizard]

Yeah, both Raphael and Mizora are cambions, but whereas Mizora is pretty standard Raphael is a character who in 3.5 would have had a lot of PC levels (I've not done his fight yet, but I suspect 10+ levels of Sorcerer). Note that while Raphael could easily empower a Warlock Mizora is well below the expected power level, Wyll's power probably actually comes from Zariel.

As to the demigod issue, it's thorny. Back in 3.5 Asmodeus was not a god, had no intentions of being a god, and went out of his way to avoid it because he did not want the restrictions. He was however as powerful as many legitimate deities, he just lacked certain perks that came with divinity. As in 3.5 godhood status started at Divine Rank 0 and demigods where from DR 1 to DR 5, so it's highly unlikely any were back then. Since 5e retconned Asmodeus for wanting and attaining godhood despite having a pretty sweet deal without it it's possible, although unlikely, that other archdevils have also ascended.

[ppaladin123]

The crown probably would put him in position to become another archdevil/the ruler of a layer like Avernus though. Zariel was a powerful angel who is now an archdevil/demigod. I imagine the son of Mephistopheles could through powerful artifacts and political intrigue reach that level.

It is pretty disappointing that as far as I can tell Mizora and Raphael never interact or even comment on each other. Mizora as a servant of Zariel should probably have some thoughts about him and his plotting. Zareil is obviously aware of and interested in thwarting the Absolute for her own reasons..hard to believe she hasn't noted Raphael's involvement.

[Mojo]

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Raphael

[Bloodartist]

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

Both are cambions, which normally aren't that powerful or influential

Cambions can make deals and grant those wishes though. Thats kind of the point of devils.

Physically they have enough to take on your group solo. When I neared the Thorm mausoleum, I noticed Raphael had about 460 hit points iirc.

Zariel rules one of the layers of hell and an archdevil. Basically at minimum a demigod if not a full god. Gods in D&D however are not omnipotent, some of them used to even be mortals.

[GriffinPilgrim]

Originally posted by Bloodartist:

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

Both are cambions, which normally aren't that powerful or influential

Cambions can make deals and grant those wishes though. Thats kind of the point of devils.

Physically they have enough to take on your group solo. When I neared the Thorm mausoleum, I noticed Raphael had about 460 hit points iirc.

Zariel rules one of the layers of hell and an archdevil. Basically at minimum a demigod if not a full god. Gods in D&D however are not omnipotent, some of them used to even be mortals.

"Cambion" is not by itself a particular measure of power, just of heritage. Cambions are half mortal, half devil. How powerful they are depends on how they've applied themselves, there's no more a solid power level for them than there is for humans or elves. Some who haven't done much to gain power are barely more powerful than a physically fit human, others are way stronger. Raphael is pretty powerful but not just because of his cambion nature but because he's been around, learned a lot of magic, picked up some impressive tricks etc. Pre 5e he'd probably have levels in some character classes (sorcerer and rogue at a guess).

[seeker1]

BTW, the Archivist tells you that Raphael MADE the Orphic Hammer, which would suggest he's got some "mojo" for a cambion.

A very possible Epilogue DOES suggest that

Raphael PLUS Crown of Karsus is on his way to conquering the Nine Hells.

But your plane, the Prime Material Plane, is next.