Are clerics/Shadowheart weak in this game or am I doing something wrong?

[Fliqpy]

Usually when I think of a healer they usually heal back a good bit or a lot of health to an individual or the entire party depending on the spell cast. However in this game the healing seems rather weak, at least with Shadowheart. I like having Shadowheart in my party but man she just feels weak at times. Not Wyll or Astarion weak (yeah I said it) but still kinda weak. Am I crazy? Maybe I just need to get gud with her.

[go fast, eat ass]

If you want good heals from Shadowheart, you either have to wait till she`s higher level or switch her class to Light domain Cleric.

The second option is preferable if you want it ASAP. The first one is fine if you play on balanced and wish to keep characters canonical classes.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by cluxx:

Are clerics/Shadowheart weak in this game or am I doing something wrong?
Usually when I think of a healer they usually heal back a good bit or a lot of health to an individual or the entire party depending on the spell cast. However in this game the healing seems rather weak, at least with Shadowheart. I like having Shadowheart in my party but man she just feels weak at times. Not Wyll or Astarion weak (yeah I said it) but still kinda weak. Am I crazy? Maybe I just need to get gud with her.

Shadowheart's base class domain is the casus knacktus there. Once changed to something more fitting like the mentioned above Light domain, Life domain for heals, or War domain for combat, she can be a powerhouse.

Make sure to rarely ever use her Firebolt. It is a race Cantrip and uses INT which she has no boni for. If you like a stat recommendation for respec, check here the Beginner Friendly Classes section:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3025093305
That will give you some orientation.

[Humpenstilzchen]

She has the worst cleric subclass. Respec her to life for best healing and tankyness or light cleric for best defense & offense spells at Withers and you´ll quickly notice how useful she can be.

[gryzze]

You can respec her to life domain for healing or tempest domain if you wan't destructive power. Both are really good. For life clerics there are certain gear you can get that will make them even more effective healers.

[Chillearth]

Respec her once you have Withers to do so.

She needs mostly even numbers for her stat spread because each ability score increases for every even number above 10.
if you are keeping her as a cleric, Trickery Domain is considered fairly weak. Tempest and War are significantly stronger and Light, while very strong, is directly counter to the story where she worships Shar, Goddess of the Night. I'd suggest Tempest.

A stat spread like Wis 16, Con 16, Dex 14, is a good start, with the rest of the points allocated as you wish.

Use the Firebolt cantrip only to set burnable/explodeable objects alight. It is a bonus cantrip she gets for having a (half) High Elf background, uses Intelligence for the attack roll and hers is poor (she starts with Int of 10).

Low level spells you should use regularly. Healing Word (on downed or nearly downed allies) I suggest not taking Cure Wounds though / Bless / Guiding Bolt / Inflict Wounds (melee spell) / Aid / Spiritual Weapon / Spirit Guardians / Glyph of Warding.
Take a damaging cantrip for when your spell slots run out (like Sacred Flame) and always have the Guidance cantrip.

Other first level spells worth a look are Bane / Command / Sanctuary.
Other second level spells worth a look are Blindness / Enhance Ability / Hold Person / Lessser Restoration. Use Warding Bond only if you understand exactly what it is doing.

Certain spells like Speak with the Dead and Lesser Restoration are rather redundant, as you can find amulets that allow both of these spells to be cast 'free' at about character level three.

[Fliqpy]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by cluxx:

Are clerics/Shadowheart weak in this game or am I doing something wrong?
Usually when I think of a healer they usually heal back a good bit or a lot of health to an individual or the entire party depending on the spell cast. However in this game the healing seems rather weak, at least with Shadowheart. I like having Shadowheart in my party but man she just feels weak at times. Not Wyll or Astarion weak (yeah I said it) but still kinda weak. Am I crazy? Maybe I just need to get gud with her.

Shadowheart's base class domain is the casus knacktus there. Once changed to something more fitting like the mentioned above Light domain, Life domain for heals, or War domain for combat, she can be a powerhouse.

Make sure to rarely ever use her Firebolt. It is a race Cantrip and uses INT which she has no boni for. If you like a stat recommendation for respec, check here the Beginner Friendly Classes section:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3025093305
That will give you some orientation.

Originally posted by Humpenstilzchen:

She has the worst cleric subclass. Respec her to life for best healing and tankyness or light cleric for best defense & offense spells at Withers and you´ll quickly notice how useful she can be.

Originally posted by gryzze:

You can respec her to life domain for healing or tempest domain if you wan't destructive power. Both are really good. For life clerics there are certain gear you can get that will make them even more effective healers.

Originally posted by Chillearth:

Respec her once you have Withers to do so.

She needs mostly even numbers for her stat spread because each ability score increases for every even number above 10.
if you are keeping her as a cleric, Trickery Domain is considered fairly weak. Tempest and War are significantly stronger and Light, while very strong, is directly counter to the story where she worships Shar, Goddess of the Night. I'd suggest Tempest.

A stat spread like Widom 16, Con 16, Dex 14, is a good start, with the rest of the points allocated as you wish.

Use the Firebolt cantrip only to set burnable/explodeable objects alight. It is a bonus cantrip she gets for having a (half) High Elf background, uses Intelligence for the attack roll and hers is poor (she starts with Int of 10).

Low level spells you should use regularly. Healing Word (on downed or nearly downed allies) I suggest not taking Cure Wounds though / Bless / Guiding Bolt / Inflict Wounds (melee spell) / Aid / Spiritual Weapon / Spirit Guardians / Glyph of Warding.
Take a damaging cantrip for when your spell slots run out (like Sacred Flame) and always have the Guidance cantrip.

Other first level spells worth a look are Bane / Command / Sanctuary.
Other second level spells worth a look are Blindness / Enhance Ability / Hold Person / Lessser Restoration. Use Warding Bond only if you understand exactly what it is doing.

Certain spells like Speak with the Dead and Lesser Restoration are rather redundant, as you can find amulets that allow both of these spells to be cast 'free' at about character level three.

Thanks. If I can get myself to play again, I think I'm gonna have a party consisting of her, Gale, Lae'zel and default Dark Urge. Do you guys have any recommendations for the other three? I've felt like they were pretty strong even when I was clueless in my first playthrough. I wanna know what the optimal way to play them is so I don't play like a clueless idiot like the first time.

[Soulwind]

Like folks said - change her domain (Life if you want a healer, War or Light if you want a tank type, Tempest if you want a caster type). Also remember that the base heals [healing word for ranged heals, cure wounds for touch heals but 2x as strong as word] are Level 1 spells. To get any "real healing" from them you have to upcast them to higher level spell slots.

Also a multi-class Life Cleric/Ancients Paladin is rather strong and ends up with some great healing - including several class ability heals in addition to the healing spells.

[Stone]

respec her into a battle cleric and she's awesome - but yes she SUCKS without a respec.

[LordOfTheBread]

They suck when you treat them as tanks. They are support and can wreck tons of damage with the correct build or even be the best support for yourt team but the moment you put them in the front line they suck.

[Chillearth]

For a first playthrough keep things simple. If you play Gale, you can use him as an Evocation wizard (his default class) all through the game. Same with Lae'zel, her default Battlemaster class is very powerful. one good fighter and arcane magic blaster is a lot of what you need. Add to that a cleric or druid for occasional heals and good spells. That allows your character to be pretty much whatever you want.

I would suggest NOT playing the Dark Urge on your first playthrough, as you can miss a lot of content if you make the wrong decisions as a Dark Urge (and you probably will). For subsequent playthroughs just play whatever you want, Dark Urge included.

It is tedious to read (but still true) that the more you understand the finer points of this game, the better you will get at combat. For example, enemies that are 'WET' take double cold and lightning damage, so now the 1st level cleric spell Create Water, becomes a very useful set-up for a cold /electric follow-up (this is one part of why Tempest Clerics are so strong).

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by cluxx:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Shadowheart's base class domain is the casus knacktus there. Once changed to something more fitting like the mentioned above Light domain, Life domain for heals, or War domain for combat, she can be a powerhouse.

Make sure to rarely ever use her Firebolt. It is a race Cantrip and uses INT which she has no boni for. If you like a stat recommendation for respec, check here the Beginner Friendly Classes section:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3025093305
That will give you some orientation.

Originally posted by Humpenstilzchen:

She has the worst cleric subclass. Respec her to life for best healing and tankyness or light cleric for best defense & offense spells at Withers and you´ll quickly notice how useful she can be.

Originally posted by gryzze:

You can respec her to life domain for healing or tempest domain if you wan't destructive power. Both are really good. For life clerics there are certain gear you can get that will make them even more effective healers.

Originally posted by Chillearth:

Respec her once you have Withers to do so.

She needs mostly even numbers for her stat spread because each ability score increases for every even number above 10.
if you are keeping her as a cleric, Trickery Domain is considered fairly weak. Tempest and War are significantly stronger and Light, while very strong, is directly counter to the story where she worships Shar, Goddess of the Night. I'd suggest Tempest.

A stat spread like Widom 16, Con 16, Dex 14, is a good start, with the rest of the points allocated as you wish.

Use the Firebolt cantrip only to set burnable/explodeable objects alight. It is a bonus cantrip she gets for having a (half) High Elf background, uses Intelligence for the attack roll and hers is poor (she starts with Int of 10).

Low level spells you should use regularly. Healing Word (on downed or nearly downed allies) I suggest not taking Cure Wounds though / Bless / Guiding Bolt / Inflict Wounds (melee spell) / Aid / Spiritual Weapon / Spirit Guardians / Glyph of Warding.
Take a damaging cantrip for when your spell slots run out (like Sacred Flame) and always have the Guidance cantrip.

Other first level spells worth a look are Bane / Command / Sanctuary.
Other second level spells worth a look are Blindness / Enhance Ability / Hold Person / Lessser Restoration. Use Warding Bond only if you understand exactly what it is doing.

Certain spells like Speak with the Dead and Lesser Restoration are rather redundant, as you can find amulets that allow both of these spells to be cast 'free' at about character level three.

Thanks. If I can get myself to play again, I think I'm gonna have a party consisting of her, Gale, Lae'zel and default Dark Urge. Do you guys have any recommendations for the other three? I've felt like they were pretty strong even when I was clueless in my first playthrough. I wanna know what the optimal way to play them is so I don't play like a clueless idiot like the first time.

Karlach excels with Tavern Brawler and throwing weapons at some point.

Wyll is quite flexible with Pact of the Blade, as it allows him to use his spell modifiers for attack roles.

Halsin and Jaheira are fine as they are. Any druid subclass can be tremendously strong.

Astarion is fun to play as Thief and as Assassin equally. Thief I consider has more flexibility overall.

Minthara is also strong as she is

In general one could say all characters have well balanced classes and they are not necessarily bad.

Shadowheart e.g. you feel she is rather weak with her role as cleric. But cleric does not mean automatically healer in Dungeons & Dragons as other classes can be good with that role too. Druids for example.

In fact, Shadowheart, depending on how the story progresses for you, can be incredible strong with her initial domain and stats. It just takes a long time and is heavily dependant on one's personal playstyle.

You may choose your playstyle, whether you stick on a role play path or want more optimisations. Most players who do the latter go for Multiclassing, as it is a very easy way to "patch out" characters' weaknesses.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3114624793

Have here an example for testing - if you want:
Respec Wyll into the suggested Paladin / Warlock as mentioned in the beginners tips guide. That way you patch out his "squishyness" while also making good of Pact of the Blade. Smites restore with Warlock's short rests and making Eldritch Blast using the spell modifier for additional damages makes him an allrounder for any situation.
Based on that possibility you can decide for yourself whether that is how you want to play, or stick with the pure classes and ability scores the characters have. Either is viable and fun to play and nothing wrong about that. Some just might feel weak at start but become ridicolous powerful later on.

[Chillearth]

The previous posters example of making a Paladin/Warlock depends a great deal on how much you want to roleplay the game. Thematically Paladins and Warlocks, especially Warlocks with a Fiend patron. are diametrically opposed to each other. Nothing in the rules says you cannot play this, but it is similar to making Shadowheart a Light cleric when she worships Shar (and the darkness).

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Chillearth:

The previous posters example of making a paladin/Warlock warlock depends a great deal on how much you want to roleplay the game. Thematically Paladins and Warlocks, especially Warlocks with a Fiend patron. are diametrically opposed to each other. Nothing in the rules says you cannot play this, but it is similar to making Shadowheart a Light cleric. when she worships Shar (and the darkness).

Indeed. That is a very good point to underline the role play aspect.

[Fliqpy]

Originally posted by Chillearth:

For a first playthrough keep things simple. If you play Gale, you can use him as an Evocation wizard (his default class) all through the game. Same with Lae'zel, her default Battlemaster class is very powerful. one good fighter and arcane magic blaster is a lot of what you need. Add to that a cleric or druid for occasional heals and good spells. That allows your character to be pretty much whatever you want.

I would suggest NOT playing the Dark Urge on your first playthrough, as you can miss a lot of content if you make the wrong decisions as a Dark Urge (and you probably will). For subsequent playthroughs just play whatever you want, Dark Urge included.

It is tedious to read (but still true) that the more you understand the finer points of this game, the better you will get at combat. For example, enemies that are 'WET' take double cold and lightning damage, so now the 1st level cleric spell Create Water, becomes a very useful set-up for a cold /electric follow-up (this is one part of why Tempest Clerics are so strong).

Actually I already played him as my first playthrough, which was a resist playthrough. Did a second playthrough with him as well and allowed him to give into the urge. I've become addicted to Durge. I can't play as Tav or play as a different class lol.

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by cluxx:

Thanks. If I can get myself to play again, I think I'm gonna have a party consisting of her, Gale, Lae'zel and default Dark Urge. Do you guys have any recommendations for the other three? I've felt like they were pretty strong even when I was clueless in my first playthrough. I wanna know what the optimal way to play them is so I don't play like a clueless idiot like the first time.

Karlach excels with Tavern Brawler and throwing weapons at some point.

Wyll is quite flexible with Pact of the Blade, as it allows him to use his spell modifiers for attack roles.

Halsin and Jaheira are fine as they are. Any druid subclass can be tremendously strong.

Astarion is fun to play as Thief and as Assassin equally. Thief I consider has more flexibility overall.

Minthara is also strong as she is

In general one could say all characters have well balanced classes and they are not necessarily bad.

Shadowheart e.g. you feel she is rather weak with her role as cleric. But cleric does not mean automatically healer in Dungeons & Dragons as other classes can be good with that role too. Druids for example.

In fact, Shadowheart, depending on how the story progresses for you, can be incredible strong with her initial domain and stats. It just takes a long time and is heavily dependant on one's personal playstyle.

You may choose your playstyle, whether you stick on a role play path or want more optimisations. Most players who do the latter go for Multiclassing, as it is a very easy way to "patch out" characters' weaknesses.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3114624793

Have here an example for testing - if you want:
Respec Wyll into the suggested Paladin / Warlock as mentioned in the beginners tips guide. That way you patch out his "squishyness" while also making good of Pact of the Blade. Smites restore with Warlock's short rests and making Eldritch Blast using the spell modifier for additional damages makes him an allrounder for any situation.
Based on that possibility you can decide for yourself whether that is how you want to play, or stick with the pure classes and ability scores the characters have. Either is viable and fun to play and nothing wrong about that. Some just might feel weak at start but become ridicolous powerful later on.

I'll have to go through this later. Thanks. I'm trying to get out of exploration mode so I can eventually try out Honor mode without it feeling impossible.

[Sentient_Toaster]

Clerics aren't supposed to be healbots in 5E, anyway. Control, buffing and damage are more important -- healing during combat is largely for getting unconscious characters back up, not for trying to keep up with damage.

Her accuracy with "Fire Bolt" will not be amazing unless you get her an intelligence-boosting item, because she has it due to race (half-elf) rather than class and it uses INT.