Lore Bard vs Life Cleric for support/healing?

[Giganx]

I know a lot of people say healing sucks and isn't worth it in this game, but I vehemently disagree. Shadowheart as a life cleric can throw out a seemingly endless stream of AoE heals that can 0 to 100 my entire party, plus keep them permanemently blessed and blade warded. Life Cleric is a pretty solid AoE and passive damage dealer as well. Plus in situations where NPC allies are suiciding themselves in stupid ways, which is always, I can even keep them alive.

Shadowheart is my only support caster, though, and the one thing I feel like I need that she's lacking is counterspell.

Now I'm not super familiar with Bards, but I keep hearing how strong they are. I know they get a lot of useful CC on top of things like counterspell and haste, but I'm reluctant to sacrifice healing to spec into Bard. Can a Lore bard be a competent healer as well, and would it be the overall better choice?

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Lore Bard vs Life Cleric for support/healing?
I know a lot of people say healing sucks and isn't worth it in this game, but I vehemently disagree. Shadowheart as a life cleric can throw out a seemingly endless stream of AoE heals that can 0 to 100 my entire party, plus keep them permanemently blessed and blade warded. Life Cleric is a pretty solid AoE and passive damage dealer as well. Plus in situations where NPC allies are suiciding themselves in stupid ways, which is always, I can even keep them alive.

Shadowheart is my only support caster, though, and the one thing I feel like I need that she's lacking is counterspell.

Now I'm not super familiar with Bards, but I keep hearing how strong they are. I know they get a lot of useful CC on top of things like counterspell and haste, but I'm reluctant to sacrifice healing to spec into Bard. Can a Lore bard be a competent healer as well, and would it be the overall better choice?

"Healing sucks" is a typical statement by veteran D&D players of the P&P game. The healing in Baldur's Gate 3 does not "suck", but it strongly depends on how you use it. Missing out on the cheap mass Bless e.g. is a pity.

I do not see a Lore Bard or any other class being superior than a Life Domain cleric when it comes to actual healing. It might suffice for players if their playstyle is adjusted to that, but that is a case by case thing to check and to decide.

With only one supporter in your party it makes sense if you have another character additionall go Bard or take up some support spells as Wizard/Sorcerer. But not something where I would recommend changing your only support character into, especially if you have good experiences so far.

Where a class change like that would make sense is e.g. you found yourself not needing that much healing anymore and your Shadowheart would be idle or not dealing much damage most of the time. But considering the many cleric spells, depending on your build, a weak cleric means only an under utilised/mistakenkly skilled cleric. Clerics can be powerhouses as well and must not be reduced to the healer job only.

How about sharing your character sheets for some cleric / bard build suggestions which might fit your party?

[Kaisha]

IMO life cleric is better than bard for support. Not only do you get aoe heals that refresh on short CDs, and the near permanent bless/blade ward that goes with that, you get Spirit Guardians, Insect Plague (one of the best AOEs in the game IMO), Hero's Feast, Aid, and Planar Ally/raise undead.

Granted auto attacks with this build suck, so I always gave Shart the items (grenades/water/etc...) so she could run around with Spirit Guardians while throwing bombs, bulbs, water, and other such nonsense.

The bard support spells just weren't all that great. They're just more offensive based.

[Giganx]

I'm playing on PS5 so can't really provide actual sheet images, but I can run down my party.

My current team build is

Tav Gith 6VengeancePaladin/4Fighter. (GWM and Alert Feats)

Shadowheart 10LifeCleric, (Attribute 2Wis and Alert Feats)

Lae'Zel 8FrenzyBarb/2Fighter (Spear thrower). (Tavern Brawler and Alert Feats)

Karlach 8Monk/2Fighter (Open Hand). (Tavern Brawler and Alert Feats)

My team can push out a lot of damage and decent CC.


I'm in act 3 on Honour Mode and haven't really needed a ton of Healing yet, but haven't gotten to any of the big fights yet. Even if Lore Bard isn't as good a Healer as a Life Cleric can it still be a competent Healer? Would it be a good fit for my setup?

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Kaisha:

IMO life cleric is better than bard for support. Not only do you get aoe heals that refresh on short CDs, and the near permanent bless/blade ward that goes with that, you get Spirit Guardians, Insect Plague (one of the best AOEs in the game IMO), Hero's Feast, Aid, and Planar Ally/raise undead.

Granted auto attacks with this build suck, so I always gave Shart the items (grenades/water/etc...) so she could run around with Spirit Guardians while throwing bombs, bulbs, water, and other such nonsense.

The bard support spells just weren't all that great. They're just more offensive based.

I see, sounds like Bards aren't really strong support classes; more jacks of all trades. I've never actually tried making a Bard so wasn't sure what to expect.

I was mainly considering it because it sounded like certain fights in Act 3 can get ugly without Counterspell, and I don't really want more than 1 support caster in my party.

Since it's Honour Mode I should probably just stick with what's been working. Honour Mode is my first complete playthrough, so not sure what to expect from the toughest fights in Act 3. It's just sounding like not having counterspell might hurt.

[Kaisha]

Originally posted by Giganx:

I see, sounds like Bards aren't really strong support classes; more jacks of all trades. I've never actually tried making a Bard so wasn't sure what to expect.

College of Sword bards are absurd amounts of damage with the right gear. Like solo Honor mode type OP damage. They are just weak as a support.

I was mainly considering it because it sounded like certain fights in Act 3 can get ugly without Counterspell, and I don't really want more than 1 support caster in my party.

Counterspell is nice, but not absolutely necessary. Silence does fine vs Raphael (just use a barbarian to maim or a fighter to knock him prone to keep him from running out of the bubble).

Since it's Honour Mode I should probably just stick with what's been working. Honour Mode is my first complete playthrough, so not sure what to expect from the toughest fights in Act 3. It's just sounding like not having counterspell might hurt.

I found Cazador, Raphael, and Orin to be quite easy (the one's people complain about). It was the Hag (Act 3), Ansur, and the Netherbrain that caused me problems. I could go into detail about particular fights if you're interested.

There is also the Staff of Interruption, though it's only 1 per long rest.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Ancients Paladin/Light Cleric is the best healer in the game.

[Agent Chieftain]

A fighter with all their extra attacks and a stack full of potions in their inventory is the best healer.

[Warm O'douls in a Pepsi Can]

Bard is one of if not the strongest class in the game to me. It does indeed lack some healing potential, but a free short rest add-on is nice. Can I hear your party comp so I can help more?

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Kaisha:

I found Cazador, Raphael, and Orin to be quite easy (the one's people complain about). It was the Hag (Act 3), Ansur, and the Netherbrain that caused me problems. I could go into detail about particular fights if you're interested.

There is also the Staff of Interruption, though it's only 1 per long rest.

Since my party is mostly martials and physical damage I'm mainly worried about bosses being randomly resistant/immune to that. Any situations where my party composition would be a problem?

Otherwise yea, any details about the nastiest fights you think are relevant I wouldn't mind seeing. I've done a bit of research myself but some consolidated information in this thread would be cool.

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Ancients Paladin/Light Cleric is the best healer in the game.

Interesting; what would make that multi better than a life cleric?

Originally posted by Warm O'douls in a Pepsi Can:

Bard is one of if not the strongest class in the game to me. It does indeed lack some healing potential, but a free short rest add-on is nice. Can I hear your party comp so I can help more?

My party composition is a few posts up. I'm open to any notes or suggestions.

[Kaisha]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Since my party is mostly martials and physical damage I'm mainly worried about bosses being randomly resistant/immune to that. Any situations where my party composition would be a problem?

Your team should stomp them. Most fights are just about delete'ing the boss and your comp will have no problems there.

Orin: bring a magic missiles scroll or 2, OR stack damage riders (as I think they call it). For example If you do 3 different types of damage on an attack (rings, draconic weapon, ect...) it'll burn 3 stacks of Orin's unstoppable. She has no resistances otherwise to speak of and is easily CC-able, just don't get knocked off the ledges.

Gortash: You'll delete without breaking a sweat. Just make sure you have a decurse (scroll works fine) as his hand of whatever thing is a curse.

Cazador: Easy if you have some form of daylight. I used Guardian Spirits + Radiant armor, but any paladin with radiant armor/ring/whatever should be fine. His HP is low, so once my Karlach (Tiger Barb) got on top of him she delete'd him in a single turn. It was kinda sad really...

Ansur: He was a ♥♥♥♥♥ for me, but that was in part because I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up, and my comp was bad for him. Your comp is much better suited. Bring electric resist elixirs (or the ring from Act 2) and a scroll of globe of invulnerability can completely negate his huge AOE blast allowing you to happily dps right through it. Also ignore the adds and just burst him.

Raphael: Stack fire resist on all your guys (makes a world of difference). All CC works vs Raph, he just removes it at the start of his turn, so you have to re-apply every turn. I used Karlach (Tiger Barb with main) to lock him in place (cleave being an AOE can hit him even when beguiled) and dropped a silence bubble on him. He then sat there stupidly doing nothing, which was quite funny. Just don't use radiant damage (he has that radiant retort type buff thing).

Netherbrain: The phase on the brain with the dragon is near identical. I just used haste pots and blew the horn on every action and filled the place with adds :) The 4 guardians spam CC so you'll want to kill them ASAP, but counterspell won't help since all 4 cast. You're better off just delet'ing them.

The second phase of the netherbrain was a bit harder, since the ladders connecting the different platforms aren't there, or there are less... or something like that. So on tactician I could hit sprint and just run from the top to the bottom and melee the brain, this time I could not and had to jump. But it's a LARGE jump and you'll get prone + damage so you'll want either some form of misty step, or cast feather fall before going in the portal, or some other way to get your melee down to the brain. Also globe of invulnerability will prevent the orbs from destroying the platforms and your men (in case someone gets caught without a bonus action to jump or something like that).

[Giganx]

Thanks for the detail Kaisha, I'll be coming back to reference this as I get to the different bosses and have to prep for them.

[✙205🍉🐆→]

The best support is a strong dd.

[Warm O'douls in a Pepsi Can]

Originally posted by Giganx:

I'm playing on PS5 so can't really provide actual sheet images, but I can run down my party.

My current team build is

Tav Gith 6VengeancePaladin/4Fighter. (GWM and Alert Feats)

Shadowheart 10LifeCleric, (Attribute 2Wis and Alert Feats)

Lae'Zel 8FrenzyBarb/2Fighter (Spear thrower). (Tavern Brawler and Alert Feats)

Karlach 8Monk/2Fighter (Open Hand). (Tavern Brawler and Alert Feats)

My team can push out a lot of damage and decent CC.


I'm in act 3 on Honour Mode and haven't really needed a ton of Healing yet, but haven't gotten to any of the big fights yet. Even if Lore Bard isn't as good a Healer as a Life Cleric can it still be a competent Healer? Would it be a good fit for my setup?

Bard's song of rest would replenish your action surges and make all of your brawlers able to do crazy amounts of damage in more than one fight. It would act more like a short rest button than a heal, but its a whole half health replenish to your whole party. It is also easier to mutliclass bard into sorcerer to get meta slots for stronger healing spells, though maybe a bard with a focus in alchemy would be better. Either way, your damage and healing all rely on only one stat that is fairly easy to buff with things like the potent robe/hag hair. One feat and you're OP-ish.

[Vaati]

Life cleric cuz its free and doesn't make you choose between healing and doing literally anything else, you can preserve life and cast your bless/cause wounds/literally any of the op cleric spells in the same term without a speed pot.

[Boss]

It's not that healing sucks exactly; it's that if you have to heal in combat, something has gone wrong. Ideally you've put down the threat before you took enough damage to justify using a turn to heal someone. However, there's a lot of magic items that grant other buffs on heal, so it's definitely more viable with the correct build.

But also, anyone can heal in BG3 because of potion throwing, and if you do it right, it can be an Aoe heal. A fighter actually makes for a great healer.