to kill nightsong or not

[heime2003]

should i let shadowheart to kill nightsong or keep her from killing nightsong and whats repercussion from either decisions. fyi i want shadowheart to become more bright happy person in the end

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by heime2003:

should i let shadowheart to kill nightsong or keep her from killing nightsong and whats repercussion from either decisions. fyi i want shadowheart to become more bright happy person in the end

Best route is to let her make her own choice. USUALLY if you've been playing it good, she'll choose to spare the Nightsong. Killing the Nightsong is the decidedly evil choice...

Edit: Oh, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. What's with all the post necromancy lately? How uncouth.

[Brian_the_Brute]

You get better gear if you kill the nightsong. It also makes the fight at the house of grief 10x easier. You still get summons with either choice in the end battle so it doesn't matter.

The summons in the final battle are just cannon fodder to distract the enemies though, your goal is to get to the top and enter the brain, dealing with the dragon, flayers, etc... are not even necessary. Having the nightsong there really doesn't make any difference.

It's also the right thing to do as Kethric used her to be immortally evil and Lorrikan was planning on doing the same. It's not a stretch to think someone else will come along soon and try to do the same even if you dealt with those 2. There were flyers everywhere about the nightsong and the word is out now about how her immortality can be stolen for nefarious purposes.

She's really gullible and seems to be easily captured because of her ego, so the risk is high it might happen again if she is left to roam the material plane. That type of power shouldn't be left lying around and dealing with her will make sure it doesn't fall into the next tryant's hands.

[brendan_in_china]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Yeah. Well, she never really "saves the day" in either encounter. Sure, she can help you fight Ketheric, but you have to free her first. And, perhaps it's just a stats/mechanics issue (she only has 85 HP, but also can't die, she hits like a truck but doesn't seem to always do well against high AC, she has no paladin powers beyond moonbeam & smite, etc.), but a lot of folks note she isn't "that" helpful fighting Ketheric in round 1 or round 2 avatar form, nor in fighting Lorroakan and his elementals and helpers. We can also debate how useful she is in the endgame as a "GYA" summons, too. Not really "saving the day" there either.

She sure as heck acts like she does, and has generous cut scenes to reiterate. We never get a dialogue to slap that down.

Her attacks are highly RNG dependent. Crits + smites are big. But I've also seen her expend on intellect devourers and thereafter do 4 dmg vs Myrkul.

But bottom line, I don't want upstaging npcs near my party. They can eff off. But unless you go stupid-evil she's integral to highlights of the midgame.

Originally posted by seeker1:

JMHO, and there's no way of knowing, but there are some hints she might have had a longer storyline that got cut before release. Possibly over breaking her oath, or just at least dealing with her unresolved anger issues. I think you get the sense that neither Tav nor her companions are totally "OK" with what she did. She tells you she doesn't feel right after curb-stomping Lorroakan, and at least one companion thinks something appears to be wrong with her. But yeah, ... nothing further after that. Could there originally have been more story there that got cut?.

Absolutely cut content. It's jarring her change in demeanor from shadowfell wise woman to wrathful She-rah. And abrupt ending after Larroakan. I think missing content would add nuance and flesh out her story. As is, she's both too much and too little.

And another thing, her VA is well off with her shouts. They come across as unhinged, not wrathful.

Originally posted by seeker1:

They clearly want that reveal to occur in your camp, so that's the main reason why they delay it. Aylin is not going to give SH the whole dish with dozens of Harpers and other NPCs standing around listening, surrounded by the corpses of all the dead Absolute servants. It's better kept for another time.

I agree, it should occur in camp. But the in-your-face PDA is straight up a huge diss to SH. There should be a fight option there! Diss SH that hard if romanced, threaten blows.

But no, our little Mary-Sue warps reality and Tav just stands there taking it like a little beach.

Originally posted by seeker1:

I think it bothers people more she says that to a lesbian lover. Honestly.

Absolutely spot on! The obligatory lesbian display had to come first. Eff SH. Stuff MC and companions defeating none other than Myrkul's avatar. We've got an agenda to push. Gay holds zero interest to me, but yet another generous cut scene for our overshadowing npc to flaunt her stuff. Yay.

[brendan_in_china]

Originally posted by Brian_the_Brute:

It's also the right thing to do as Kethric used her to be immortally evil and Lorrikan was planning on doing the same. It's not a stretch to think someone else will come along soon and try to do the same even if you dealt with those 2. There were flyers everywhere about the nightsong and the word is out now about how her immortality can be stolen for nefarious purposes.

She's really gullible and seems to be easily captured because of her ego, so the risk is high it might happen again if she is left to roam the material plane. That type of power shouldn't be left lying around and dealing with her will make sure it doesn't fall into the next tryant's hands.

This is spot on!

Even if Nightsong were likable, heck very likable, fan favourite, I loved her. If you pause and think, you have to draw the conclusion that if Balthazar, Kethric, Larroakan, (Shar and Myrkul) knew how to exploit her rejuvenation, by end-game it's an open secret for many high level villains.

MC really has two choices. Perma-kill her, or bring her into your party. But you can't do the latter, so...

[seeker1]

Originally posted by brendan_in_china:

Her attacks are highly RNG dependent. Crits + smites are big. But I've also seen her expend on intellect devourers and thereafter do 4 dmg vs Myrkul.

There are some stats issues, I think, and the second one is - mechanically - like every other non-direct-controlled but allied NPC to the party - her AI sucks.

Also, she should have ALL the lvl12 paladin powers. (There is a mod that fixes that, and I have it. Also makes her direct controlled when allied NPC. And: makes her summonable even before the endgame.)

Absolutely spot on!

So: then you'd be fine with it if she was really Ser Aylin after all, as I said. (It's not an "obligatory lesbian display" if she's male.)

[Maj. Grumpy]

Aylin is still a favorite character of mine, she's perfect.

[Bolimar]

Originally posted by hellgeist:

Saving Nightsong is for small children, the overly sentimental, and non-gamers who really need to be hand-held through a theme-park ride in BG3. If you know how to play, and are willing to support the great roleplay inherent in Shadowheart's plotline, you really need to dispose of Nightsong. You can get more support for 'final battle' through the power she gains as the Chosen of Shar, and her influence over the cult members.

Have you actually ever played this on honour/tactician? Ketheric and the death god avatar curb stomp her and your party has to do all the work. Killing the nightsong just serves to fulfill a power fantasy, it really doesn't influence the game's difficulty in a meaningful way. The game's easy regardless, there aren't really any badass story choices that make the game difficult for the player.

Originally posted by seeker1:

We've got an agenda to push.

There's no agenda, people in relationships like that just exist in real life. If they weren't able to relate to or write stories that reflect their experiences, that would be ridiculous. It's not as if most of the relationships are gay anyway, you can see straight families with children everywhere in the game.

[hellgeist]

Originally posted by Bolimar:

Have you actually ever played this on honour/tactician? Ketheric and the death god avatar curb stomp her and your party has to do all the work. Killing the nightsong just serves to fulfill a power fantasy, it really doesn't influence the game's difficulty in a meaningful way. The game's easy regardless, there aren't really any badass story choices that make the game difficult for the player.

As you say, the game has no actual difficulty concerns.
As I said, its a RP opportunity to let Shart kill the Nightsong and fulfill her destiny.
Maybe you mis-read my post? NS makes things even easier for new players (who will be playing on normal), so there is everything to gain by killing her if you care about your companion's quests. I thought I was being pretty straightforward, its not about difficulty.

[Brian_the_Brute]

Originally posted by Bolimar:

Have you actually ever played this on honour/tactician? Ketheric and the death god avatar curb stomp her and your party has to do all the work...

Yep. Just did that fight again in honor mode yesterday. Dam Ailyn was curb stomped in 2 rounds, just sat there dead and useless as usual.

4th kethric/myrkul fight I have had her alive in, never been useful but I decided to see if it was just bad RNG. I used haste and freed her 1st round and dealt with the flayer so he wouldn't charm her. Ailyn did like 4 damage 1st attack and then maybe 20 in 2nd round and then dead.

Afterwards she gets up and acts like she did something to get the victory. Reminds me of the king in dragonslayer that sticks the sword in the dead dragon after the kid/amulet kills it.

[dulany67]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

If she kills the Nightsong she gets to be Dark Justiciar and wield the Spear of Night. If she doesn't, then she gets a new haircut and some other kind of spear, which is basically the same, but has slightly different spell or something.

Also, romance ends if she becomes Dark Juicier.

She still gets a new haircut but the color doesn't change. You can still romance her and there is a different sex scene.

[PaunchyOrange]

As you say, the game has no actual difficulty concerns.
As I said, its a RP opportunity to let Shart kill the Nightsong and fulfill her destiny.
Maybe you mis-read my post? NS makes things even easier for new players (who will be playing on normal), so there is everything to gain by killing her if you care about your companion's quests. I thought I was being pretty straightforward, its not about difficulty. [/quote]
There's not really anything to gain from killing Nightsong except a few pieces of gear or If you RP an Evil playthrough. You lose so many other NPC'S, companions, quests and other equipment. Off topic a little but I think helping SH get free of Shar is just infinitely better.

[dulany67]

Originally posted by PaunchyOrange:

As you say, the game has no actual difficulty concerns.
As I said, its a RP opportunity to let Shart kill the Nightsong and fulfill her destiny.
Maybe you mis-read my post? NS makes things even easier for new players (who will be playing on normal), so there is everything to gain by killing her if you care about your companion's quests. I thought I was being pretty straightforward, its not about difficulty.
There's not really anything to gain from killing Nightsong except a few pieces of gear or If you RP an Evil playthrough. You lose so many other NPC'S, companions, quests and other equipment. Off topic a little but I think helping SH get free of Shar is just infinitely better.

So in my game, SH killed Ailyn while my MC was down. This probably pushed me from a Lawful Neutral run into LE. But I still have Karlach and Will. So far nothing has pushed them o er the edge.

[PaunchyOrange]

So in my game, SH killed Ailyn while my MC was down. This probably pushed me from a Lawful Neutral run into LE. But I still have Karlach and Will. So far nothing has pushed them o er the edge. [/quote]
Yeah I hate that weird instance where if your MC is dead, SH always kills her, even if she would spare her if you said nothing if your MC was alive. it makes all the work and encounters earlier irrelevant but at least you still have a chance to redeem her and free her from Shar and darkness in act 3.

[dulany67]

Originally posted by PaunchyOrange:

Yeah I hate that weird instance where if your MC is dead, SH always kills her, even if she would spare her if you said nothing if your MC was alive. it makes all the work and encounters earlier irrelevant but at least you still have a chance to redeem her and free her from Shar and darkness.

I did not and will not. Now I'm just going with it for RP reasons.

[JayPAC]

The most important consequence does not concern Sheart at all. It's that the entire Last Light Inn camp dies if you silence the Nightsong. Meaning that you lose Dammon as a trader and Jaheira as a party member. Everything else would be negligible to me but those two facst break it for me so on my playthroughs I usually avoid killing her.