"Help" action is moronic

[Space Dog]

This is a good example why I can't play BG3 anymore and have to wait for a D&D Core Rules edition.

Honour mode. Owlbear fight. First one down.

Owlbear Mate downs Shadowheart. Tav "Helps" Shadowheart. Lae'zel attacks Owlbear.

Owlbear Mate downs Shadowheart. Tav "Helps" Shadowheart. Lae'zel attacks Owlbear.

Owlbear Mate downs Shadowheart. Tav "Helps" Shadowheart. Lae'zel attacks Owlbear.

Times 15 more. Until the enemy that has zero chance to win against this nonsense eventually dies.

Raphael even almost beat me when I fought fair, but then turns out I have the all-powerful Help action and a regenerating Helm with auto-revive, which he was completely helpless against. Talk about an anti-climax for a boss fight.

To all the people who plan to respond with "If you don't like it, don't use it". Don't. It's a core feature of combat. It has to be a part of the system in a sensible way. And letting your party members die is stupid from a tactical and narrative point of view.

How does stuff like this get through playtesting? Why does Larian add cheese like this to a system that didn't have it, and doesn't need it?

[Deadflag]

Literally just fought the Githyanki in Act 1 and had to make the choice of letting Shadowheart stay down and fail a third death roll or trying to finish off one of the bosses. Ended up "helping" her up, she ran, I took another hit but Shadowheart was my healer and it pulled the fight together.

No clue what you're on about.

[Popsicles]

Maybe you could try thinking outside of the box? Help isn't the only way to raise a downed character.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

OP is right.

[McGoodGreen]

Yeah, that is a little silly of a situation. We shouldn't be able to tank damage by enemy AI getting to continually wail on a dead body that we keep propping back up.

In one version of DnD I played, getting to a certain negative HP meant you died, flat out. Being at 1 HP was one of the most dangerous positions to be in.

Being able to help an ally that is near death makes sense, the fact it can be repeated turn after turn is just...ridiculous.

[Hobocop]

TBH, this has more to do with 5e's endemic problem with yo-yo healing than anything else. A 3rd-level paladin by RAW can do the same thing just by spending 1HP with Lay on Hands every turn.

[Recjawjind]

You are spending 2 actions every turn to keep a person alive, cutting your total action economy in half, with just 1 downed person.

[McGoodGreen]

Originally posted by Tinball:

Maybe you could try thinking outside of the box? Help isn't the only way to raise a downed character.

But if you can just use a free action((as in, we just gets actions every turn, no need to buy a scroll or spend a true resource)) to raise a body up for a turn, and there is no repercussion, and you are getting to slowly kill the enemy...why would you switch tactics?

The OPs problem isn't that they are having a hard time getting their downed character to do something else....

It is that the AI focusing on someone it cannot really kill makes it easy to cheese through encounters as there is no real threat of death with the help system setup as is

[victorvnv]

Lol that’s exactly how I beat the owlbears at lvl 3 lol.

The help action is retarded however I completely forget it even exists as soon as I turn lvl 5 lol.

[Space Dog]

At least healing spells and abilties like Lay on Hands cost a resource of some kind. "Help" can be spammed until the end of time and it's essentially magic healing in BG3.

But I think magic healing should also have it's limits, especially on harder difficulties.

Perhaps cap revivals to 1 per fight. Add a "Maimed" condition that gives a debuff, and if you are downed while Maimed, you stay down.

[Popsicles]

Originally posted by McGoodGreen:

Originally posted by Tinball:

Maybe you could try thinking outside of the box? Help isn't the only way to raise a downed character.

But if you can just use a free action to raise a body up for a turn, and there is no repercussion, and you are getting to slowly kill the enemy...why would you switch tactics?

The OPs problem isn't that they are having a hard time getting their downed character to do something else....

It is that the AI focusing on someone it cannot really kill makes it easy to cheese through encounters as there is no real threat of death with the help system setup as is

There is threat of death in this game. You play Honor mode correct?

Again, this is at tactical problem for the OP. Git Gud.

[Space Dog]

Originally posted by Recjawjind:

You are spending 2 actions every turn to keep a person alive, cutting your total action economy in half, with just 1 downed person.

It doesn't matter how many actions I spend, if it takes a boss level enemy out of the fight for free and without fail, and I still have one person attacking. It's a broken mechanic.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Space Dog:

At least healing spells and abilties like Lay on Hands cost a resource of some kind. "Help" can be spammed until the end of time and it's essentially magic healing in BG3.

But I think magic healing should also have it's limits, especially on harder difficulties.

Perhaps cap revivals to 1 per fight. Add a "Maimed" condition that gives a debuff, and if you are downed while Maimed, you stay down.

Instead of reviving a character, it should just provide Advantage on their next death save.

[Space Dog]

5e rules on "Help" would be DC 10 Medicine check to stop a downed character from dying and making Death Saves. They stay down. Larian could use the rules for the game's benefit.

[nightwalker83137]

On the Owlbear fight those two npc that can join the fight are unless. The guy spent the whole time trying to attack the cub while the woman did attack the adult and heal me she also did not last very long.

[Firecam]

The character should instantly die if he fall for the third time.