Is this the best RPG ever made?

[Atlas32]

The scope, the length, the quality of the animations and models, the music. Could this be the contender for the best RPG ever made? what could rival it?

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by Martimus Prime:

Originally posted by $CRWD:

There are lots of game that rival or outpace BG3. Especially if your your criteria is as general as "RPG that exists," rather than cRPG, cRPG week of release, etc.

You aren't going to convince these absolute toddlers that a better game exists before BG3.

Many, many many many games are better.

Kinda subjective no? What defines better? What is better really? I would say the exansive world's of mass effect and dragon age is a far greater feat in the interconnectivity of a larger story then BG3 is, so it's beat in that category.
But at the same time the sheer amount of effort and work here is imo only of course quite astounding. I think BG3 stands in my top favorite games, which not many games these days make that list.

Of course I'm sure plenty of "better" games exist in many contexts, but in a subjective matter if we use overall big picture, I think it's entirely fair to put (in your own list really any game you please lol) a game like BG3 I mean look at how it's extremely positive, with a massive review base, one does not achieve that by being mediocre.

[$CRWD]

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Originally posted by Martimus Prime:

You aren't going to convince these absolute toddlers that a better game exists before BG3.

Many, many many many games are better.

Kinda subjective no? What defines better? What is better really? I would say the exansive world's of mass effect and dragon age is a far greater feat in the interconnectivity of a larger story then BG3 is, so it's beat in that category.
But at the same time the sheer amount of effort and work here is imo only of course quite astounding. I think BG3 stands in my top favorite games, which not many games these days make that list.

Of course I'm sure plenty of "better" games exist in many contexts, but in a subjective matter if we use overall big picture, I think it's entirely fair to put (in your own list really any game you please lol) a game like BG3 I mean look at how it's extremely positive, with a massive review base, one does not achieve that by being mediocre.

Well, we define better with specific criteria, i.e. a standard, and from a point of reference, like a game that is trying to accomplish something similar, or a game that has already accomplished something similar. Narrative, gameplay (combat, platforming, loops generally), replayability, aesthetics/graphics quality, optimization/performance, musical scoring and monetization all factor when making this determination. And while it can be argued that preference of emphasis, on any of these factors, can be subjective, a game that does a solid job in multiple areas will be backed by a consensus.

The notion that "games are subjective" keeps recurring, but it has been resolved. People are perhaps just new to what standards there are, or oblivious altogether.

[Jarsonne]

Originally posted by Traumatized Squirrel:

Originally posted by Martimus Prime:

Many, many many many games are better.

I would like to see you name them so I can buy them and see for myself.

Lol, always the same trick, stay vague so you can affirm anything and try make it feel as an arguing it isn't.

In my opinion there's 4 major points of difficulty:
- The difference between preferred/favorite and better. If everything ends be subjective when it's about entertainment, it's hard to reject any objectivity attempt by taking some distance with pure reference and use criteria that are more objectives.
- Time and games aging, and refuse put in modern context old game, and refuse admit many designs became quite less good in modern context. There's obviously graphics details and 3D quality, but it's much more as writing, vocal acting, gameplay copied for better, more.
- Time and fresh play, because if there's known side effects of nostalgia, there's also a stronger side effect from last love is best love. And for now games as Elden Ring and BG3 are too fresh and benefit of it.
- No matter subjective aspects, and objective aspect, preferences matter, they lead designs and enjoyments. A typical example is player liking/disliking RTwP or TB.

Argue that many many RPG are better (who care of games here?), is a bit funny, and looks like typical wide exaggeration.

[Jonny Boy]

easily Yes

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by $CRWD:

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Kinda subjective no? What defines better? What is better really? I would say the exansive world's of mass effect and dragon age is a far greater feat in the interconnectivity of a larger story then BG3 is, so it's beat in that category.
But at the same time the sheer amount of effort and work here is imo only of course quite astounding. I think BG3 stands in my top favorite games, which not many games these days make that list.

Of course I'm sure plenty of "better" games exist in many contexts, but in a subjective matter if we use overall big picture, I think it's entirely fair to put (in your own list really any game you please lol) a game like BG3 I mean look at how it's extremely positive, with a massive review base, one does not achieve that by being mediocre.

Well, we define better with specific criteria, i.e. a standard, and from a point of reference, like a game that is trying to accomplish something similar, or a game that has already accomplished something similar. Narrative, gameplay (combat, platforming, loops generally), replayability, aesthetics/graphics quality, optimization/performance, and monetization all factor when making this determination. And while it can be argued that preference of emphasis, on any of these factors, can be subjective, a game that does a solid job in multiple areas will be backed by a consensus.

The notion that "games are subjective" keeps recurring, but it has been resolved. People are perhaps just new to what standards there are, or oblivious altogether.

I think there can be some objectivity, at the very least some can be inserted. Like using high user reviews to state that it's definitely in the qualifications of bring "the best" but there is some subjective "well I didn't like it" so when it's a personal list, any game can be anywhere on the list. Maybe someone's favorite game is a notoriously bad game, cuz it holds a place in their heart lol

However if a game is exetemely qwll received its for sure in the running of the category if you ask me, just from a publics opinion matter.

[bibron]

Originally posted by Jarsonne:

Originally posted by Traumatized Squirrel:

I would like to see you name them so I can buy them and see for myself.

Lol, always the same trick, stay vague so you can affirm anything and try make it feel as an arguing it isn't.

In my opinion there's 4 major points of difficulty:
- The difference between preferred/favorite and better. If everything ends be subjective when it's about entertainment, it's hard to reject any objectivity attempt by taking some distance with pure reference and use criteria that are more objectives.
- Time and games aging, and refuse put in modern context old game, and refuse admit many designs became quite less good in modern context. There's obviously graphics details and 3D quality, but it's much more as writing, vocal acting, gameplay copied for better, more.
- Time and fresh play, because if there's known side effects of nostalgia, there's also a stronger side effect from last love is best love. And for now games as Elden Ring and BG3 are too fresh and benefit of it.
- No matter subjective aspects, and objective aspect, preferences matter, they lead designs and enjoyments. A typical example is player liking/disliking RTwP or TB.

Argue that many many RPG are better (who care of games here?), is a bit funny, and looks like typical wide exaggeration.

Wtf are yoiu trying to say`?

[$CRWD]

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Originally posted by $CRWD:

Well, we define better with specific criteria, i.e. a standard, and from a point of reference, like a game that is trying to accomplish something similar, or a game that has already accomplished something similar. Narrative, gameplay (combat, platforming, loops generally), replayability, aesthetics/graphics quality, optimization/performance, and monetization all factor when making this determination. And while it can be argued that preference of emphasis, on any of these factors, can be subjective, a game that does a solid job in multiple areas will be backed by a consensus.

The notion that "games are subjective" keeps recurring, but it has been resolved. People are perhaps just new to what standards there are, or oblivious altogether.

I think there can be some objectivity, at the very least some can be inserted. Like using high user reviews to state that it's definitely in the qualifications of bring "the best" but there is some subjective "well I didn't like it" so when it's a personal list, any game can be anywhere on the list. Maybe someone's favorite game is a notoriously bad game, cuz it holds a place in their heart lol

However if a game is exetemely qwll received its for sure in the running of the category if you ask me, just from a publics opinion matter.

That's true. A lot about reviews has to do with how much exposure someone has in the genre, as well. It's possible someone's entry into a genre will be treated as the best thing ever, when it's mediocre by comparison. By using a standard and playing games in the same genre, you develop a sense of objectivity. So it's an acquired judgement, certainly not how one starts out.

I don't fault anyone for viewing BG3 favorably. Larian has done well, all things considered. They deserve the recognition.

[Jarsonne]

Originally posted by bibron:

Wtf are yoiu trying to say`?

List the core problems leading players to have very different opinions on what games are better.

[Daej]

No it's just the most popular one. It's an entry to the genre for many, like Skyrim was for Bethesda style rpgs. Doesn't make it the best in genre, just what mainstream audiences were introduced to. It's the vanilla or chocolate ice cream of crpgs.

Better rpgs include but are not limited to New Vegas, Morrowind, KOTOR, Arcanum, BG2, WoTR, Rogue Trader, Dragon Age Origins, Fallout 1 and 2, Tyranny, Planescape Torment, and VTMB. Among many others.

[$CRWD]

Originally posted by Daej:

No it's just the most popular one. It's an entry to the genre for many, like Skyrim was for Bethesda style rpgs. Doesn't make it the best in genre, just what mainstream audiences were introduced to. It's the vanilla or chocolate ice cream of crpgs.

Better rpgs include but are not limited to New Vegas, Morrowind, KOTOR, Arcanum, BG2, WoTR, Rogue Trader, Dragon Age Origins, and VTMB.

Rogue Trader has such a phenomenal OST, on top of being a great choices-matter cRPG. A must play and must listen.

[Jarsonne]

Originally posted by $CRWD:

That's true. A lot about reviews has to do with how much exposure someone has in the genre, as well. It's possible someone's entry into a genre will be treated as the best thing ever, when it's mediocre by comparison. By using a standard and playing games in the same genre, you develop a sense of objectivity. So it's an acquired judgement, certainly not how one starts out.

Yes but many RPG players are limited to CRPG, and fail see and enjoy properly RPG qualities not usual in CRPG. And in my opinion BG3 suffers a bit of this problem for a small minority.

Moreover develop a sense of objectivity for specific features and from experience is easier than do it for the magic result of a merge of features. And with RPG there's ton of pertinent features, no RPG exploiting them all. This merge is more bound to subjectivity even with experience.

And even if you skip the merge aspect, another aspect is key it's the importance of each feature compared to others, this is also bound more to subjectivity, even with experience.

[EricHVela]

I don't put all my faith in any generally accepted public opinion as those were also the driving force behind some really horrible dark times in history. While not as disastrous, that extends to generally accepted public opinion of games.

How did we go from "subjective opinion is a subjective opinion" to "subjective opinion is objective fact if enough people agree"? A person can always find a group of people who agree. That doesn't make it objective fact. It can easily lead to insular ignorance, though.

Break away from cliques. Have your own opinion and don't care if anyone else shares it. If someone agrees, cool. It's not a requirement, though.

[$CRWD]

Originally posted by EricHVela:

I don't put all my faith in any generally accepted public opinion as those were also the driving force behind some really horrible dark times in history. While not as disastrous, that extends to generally accepted public opinion of games.

How did we go from "subjective opinion is a subjective opinion" to "subjective opinion is objective fact if enough people agree"? A person can always find a group of people who agree. That doesn't make it objective fact. It can easily lead to insular ignorance, though.

Break away from cliques. Have your own opinion and don't care if anyone else shares it. If someone agrees, cool. It's not a requirement, though.

"subjective opinion is objective fact if enough people agree"?

Consensus is how most fields of study operate, including science. Many people do not know this, but that really is the extent of objective. Let's not pretend like there's no such thing as an objectively bad game, either. There are so many asset flips, one-dimensional clicker games, and developed projects that just turn out horrendously: Skull Island: Rise of Kong.

[Martimus Prime]

Chrono Trigger.

Final Fantasy II, III, VII.

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2.

Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2.

Divinity: Original Sin 2.

In my opinion, just those are far better than BG3.

BG3 is a superb game and I enjoyed playing every minute of it, but those games IMNSHO were better, speaking as a man who has gamed since he was 8 years old.

[DART VON FABLE]

No.