Viconia and Sarevok were ruined in BG3

[Ser Tomato]

An old post but I forgot to drop a link here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/18h1vqp/the_assassination_of_viconia_and_sarevok_with/

TL;DR: BG3's Viconia and Sarevok are completely different from their old selves, Shadowheart and Orin's backstories were built on retcon and assassination of two old characters. Devs, don't use old characters from classic games if you're not going to treat them with respect, especially don't make them your new characters' cheap stepping stones.

[[TG] zac]

Originally posted by 1415165:

Broo it shows me that they deleted your post on reddit and banned you from reddit.

Does anyone actually expect anything different then that from reddit at this point ?

They have been nothing but shills and mindless puppets for years.

I remember reading some years back (think it was around 2016ish) reading about how the CEO was caught changing the text in posts to make people he didn't like look bad.

And the person they had take over for him after he resigned somehow kept low scored stuff pinned and bad reviews purged from several products they were found to have large investments/connections to.

And that's before you even get to the behavior, nepotism etc.... a lot of the forum mods have.

[Lord Adorable]

Originally posted by TG zac:

Originally posted by 1415165:

Broo it shows me that they deleted your post on reddit and banned you from reddit.

Does anyone actually expect anything different then that from reddit at this point ?

They have been nothing but shills and mindless puppets for years.

I remember a some years back reading about how the CEO was caught changing the text in posts to make people he didn't like look bad.

And the person they had take over for him after he resigned somehow kept low scored stuff pinned and bad reviews purged from several products they were found to have large investments/connections to.

And that's before you even get to the behavior, nepotism etc.... a lot of the forum mods have.

What does this have to do with Baldur's Gate 3?

[[TG] zac]

Originally posted by Lord Adorable:

Originally posted by TG zac:

Does anyone actually expect anything different then that from reddit at this point ?

They have been nothing but shills and mindless puppets for years.

I remember a some years back reading about how the CEO was caught changing the text in posts to make people he didn't like look bad.

And the person they had take over for him after he resigned somehow kept low scored stuff pinned and bad reviews purged from several products they were found to have large investments/connections to.

And that's before you even get to the behavior, nepotism etc.... a lot of the forum mods have.

What does this have to do with Baldur's Gate 3?

Its about the pattern of behavior you can expect at reddit.

The op was wondering why the BG3 reddit was purgiing stuff, including legit questions and complaints.

I simply explained expecting them not to would be to ignore the past behavior of many reddit mods as well as the behavior of reddit's board & CEO for a decade or more now.

That behavior or filled with nepotism and questionable morals.

Like most of what was supposed to be bastions of "freedom of information" on the internet it quickly fell to special interests.

[Lord Adorable]

Originally posted by TG zac:

Originally posted by Lord Adorable:

What does this have to do with Baldur's Gate 3?

Its about the pattern of behavior you can expect at reddit.

The op was wondering why the BG3 reddit was purgiing stuff, including legit questions and complaints.

I simply explained expecting them not to would be to ignore the past behavior of many reddit mods as well as the behavior of reddit's board & CEO for a decade or more now.

That behavior or filled with nepotism and questionable morals.

Like most of what was supposed to be bastions of "freedom of information" on the internet it quickly fell to special interests.

You could have just said "It has nothing to do with Baldur's Gate 3".

[seeker1]

Originally posted by 1415165:

Can you please provide the interviews where they answer why viconia was portrayed like that? I cant find them

Somewhere I'm pretty sure I saw a statement about this from Larian Studios that the Viconia in the game was NOT the one people adventured with in BG2, instead to think of her as someone who never met charname/the bhaalspawn/Abdel Adrian. Unfortunately, I can't relocate that statement at the moment.

I can't give you the why, but bg3.wiki has the what:

[from the Wiki]
Changes to Viconia's backstory
Viconia's state in Baldur's Gate 3 is partially reflective of her default ending in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal, wherein she found a Sharite cult in Waterdeep. However several differences can be found:

In her original epilogue Viconia killed all cult members due to one's betrayal, shrugging off the admonishment of her goddess, which mirrors her early rebellious actions against Lolth. She then wandered the Realms and stopped several crises with the help of Drizzt Do'Urden, including saving the elven city of Suldanessalar, for which she received honours from Queen Ellesime. Her fate following the events above was unknown.

In Baldur's Gate 3, Viconia's motive behind the Waterdeep slaughter was changed to obeying Shar's order, and she remained obedient to her goddess ever since. Despite having a history of refusing to sacrifice a child to another goddess, she has performed Shar's tasks faithfully, such as abducting children and torturing their relatives, similar to what Lolth did to her beloved brother — which has caused her nightmares in the previous game.
[snip][end]

[Ser Tomato]

I think the wiki is just pointing out how bad BG3 writers are, in a drier and more polite tone. Basically, "this is who she was, and this is how they retconned her, poorly."

[Lord Adorable]

Originally posted by Ser Tomato:

I think the wiki is just pointing out how bad BG3 writers are, in a drier and more polite tone.

Let us agree to disagree.

[Richard Steel]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Originally posted by 1415165:

Can you please provide the interviews where they answer why viconia was portrayed like that? I cant find them

Somewhere I'm pretty sure I saw a statement about this from Larian Studios that the Viconia in the game was NOT the one people adventured with in BG2, instead to think of her as someone who never met charname/the bhaalspawn/Abdel Adrian. Unfortunately, I can't relocate that statement at the moment.

I can't give you the why, but bg3.wiki has the what:

[from the Wiki]
Changes to Viconia's backstory
Viconia's state in Baldur's Gate 3 is partially reflective of her default ending in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal, wherein she found a Sharite cult in Waterdeep. However several differences can be found:

In her original epilogue Viconia killed all cult members due to one's betrayal, shrugging off the admonishment of her goddess, which mirrors her early rebellious actions against Lolth. She then wandered the Realms and stopped several crises with the help of Drizzt Do'Urden, including saving the elven city of Suldanessalar, for which she received honours from Queen Ellesime. Her fate following the events above was unknown.

In Baldur's Gate 3, Viconia's motive behind the Waterdeep slaughter was changed to obeying Shar's order, and she remained obedient to her goddess ever since. Despite having a history of refusing to sacrifice a child to another goddess, she has performed Shar's tasks faithfully, such as abducting children and torturing their relatives, similar to what Lolth did to her beloved brother — which has caused her nightmares in the previous game.
[snip][end]

If Larian, or anyone, actually claimed it's a different Viconia, it's a stupid statement contradicted by the reactions of Minsc and Jaheira when they encounter Viconia in BG3. The dialogue of Minsc and Jaheira make it very clear that Larian acknowledges Viconia as a former travelling companion of both of them. And because Minsc and Jaheira reference, in dialogue, their past relationship to the Bhaalspawn of BG1 and BG2, be extension, we can conclude Viconia was also associated to the old Bhaalspawn.

The poor retconning of BG1/BG2 characters isn't the only example of bad story writing on Larian's part. It's unfortunate they made these bad writing choices, when they made so many other good ones. But a lot of it may have had to do with their crunch at the end to rush through Act 3 development.

[seeker1]

Spoilers?

I believe they also retconned Balduran. Ed Greenwood pretty much says so. Balduran was never an elf, originally described as human.

Shrug? I also don't really care much. I know people are circulating a petition to fix Viconia. I won't sign it. Because I don't care.

I played BG2. However, my CHARNAME was not this "Abdel Adrian" dude the game and some characters often talk about, so the way I look at it, I never met "this" Viconia. My CHARNAME also romanced Jaheira, but she appears not to remember this. And thus, I guess to have ever met him. (She never talks about this "Abdel Adrian" dude much either.)

This is why I happily have my waifu Shadowheart kill her, I still view her as not "the" Viconia I met and romanced with MY CHARNAME in BG2.

[ScrapyardGuru]

Originally posted by The Seraph of Tomorrow:

It's always annoying when devs used established characters as a cheap springboard for their new ones. Just goes to show their new characters can't stand on their own very well.

We call this the Disney approach.

[Ancient Toaster]

Nah, they weren't. I hated Viconia in BG1 and 2 and Sarevok is a loser.

[May XD]

Yeah, they aren't very well written in general. Whether you like them or not from first 2 games, they are just very stupid and shallow villains that exist just to be killed and have personality of a brick.

If they were so intent on changing them, they could at least make them interesting, but if Emperor is what game's writers consider to be an "interesting villain" i'm not too surprised.

charisma vacuums, all.

love bg3 and would rather play it than 1-2, but writing outside of npc companions is just passable, it's ok, it's there, just don't expect anything stunning and you're good.

[GreyFox]

That's because Larian suck and BG3 is garbage. Who TF asked for this lol. Just complete rubbish through and through

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by GreyFox:

That's because Larian suck and BG3 is garbage. Who TF asked for this lol. Just complete rubbish through and through

96% positive reviews.
Best-selling cRPG in history.
Won all the major GOTY awards (first time for any game, from what I've been told).

The list goes on...

[hornsounder97]

Eh, I enjoyed seeing them again. The fights were fun, and I'm not gonna get too bent out of shape over these supposed slights, or insults. It's not like Imoen pops in to fart on your breakfast tart or anything.