Viconia and Sarevok were ruined in BG3

[Ser Tomato]

An old post but I forgot to drop a link here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/18h1vqp/the_assassination_of_viconia_and_sarevok_with/

TL;DR: BG3's Viconia and Sarevok are completely different from their old selves, Shadowheart and Orin's backstories were built on retcon and assassination of two old characters. Devs, don't use old characters from classic games if you're not going to treat them with respect, especially don't make them your new characters' cheap stepping stones.

[Kadh2000]

Viconia deserved better, yes. That was just a callback to her name, with nothing otherwise to say she was the same Viconia. Yeah, maybe this one's a namesake.
Sarevok I kinda justify (in my head anyway) as a failed piece of him that never escaped the hells when the heroine of BG2 restored him.

[GRiM_DRM]

Totally agree, Sarevok fells like his bg1 self, not his post Throne of Bhaal self. And how is he even alive, he is (and was) just a human, bg3 set 100+ years after Throne of Bhaal, he should be super old, or dead.

[Ser Tomato]

Originally posted by GRiM_DRM:

Totally agree, Sarevok fells like his bg1 self, not his post Throne of Bhaal self. And how is he even alive, he is (and was) just a human, bg3 set 100+ years after Throne of Bhaal, he should be super old, or dead.

Thanks but I'd argue not even that. I can't remember a time when Sarevok was Bhaal's loyal puppy dog. He literally wanted to replace Bhaal and called him "that old fool" in BG1.

[The1Kobra]

Well, to break it down:

For Sarevok, yes, I do find his behavior in BG3 highly inconsistent with who he was in BG1 and BG2. He was never loyal to Bhaal. He was Chaotic Evil, but he wanted that power to rule.
Also remember, in Throne of Bhaal, he gave up his Bhaalspawn essence in order to return to life. This also means that there's no way he could have sired a Bhaalspawn himself (Orin), which creates a rather gaping plot hole.
It does also ignore his possible character development too. If what Jaheira and Minsc say is right, he originally did redeem himself only to fall back to evil in between Throne of Bhaal and BG3.
But even so, he wanted that power for himself, his becoming suddenly devoted to Bhaal is highly unusual.
What happened to Tamoko as well? His epilogue in Throne of Bhaal mentioned he returned to Kara-tur to bury her.

Now for Viconia,...
Ultimately there's more variance here. There's exactly one path to redeem her and that's to stay on her romance arc through Throne of Bhaal. But assuming that's not what happened, here's the relevant tidbits of information:
Her journal mentions having helped save Suldenesselar, so she was with the PC through BG2. Note that her Throne of Bhaal epilogue non-romanced mentions helping them, so it could have happened in the future too.
She sometime later betrayed the party.
My theory is that she betrayed the party and then made room for Sarevok in the group.
Instead of going through a redemption arc and turning from Shar, her betraying the party means that she instead only had Shar to turn to and became a villain.
Alternatively, she went through the campaign with the team, unredeemed and unromanced by the main PC, then later betrayed them, then turned fully to Shar.

So it CAN make a bit more sense for Viconia, depending on what you say is the canon story of BG2. The canon story also includes Jaheira and Minsc as having stayed with the PC during the Bhaalspawn crisis.
With Sarevok though, it makes very little sense regardless of the permutation. Especially the gaping plothole with Orin, since she could not have inherited her bhaalspawn essence from him.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by GRiM_DRM:

Totally agree, Sarevok fells like his bg1 self, not his post Throne of Bhaal self. And how is he even alive, he is (and was) just a human, bg3 set 100+ years after Throne of Bhaal, he should be super old, or dead.

The game is full of humans that are inexplicably still alive, mainly so they can be used as fan service. Minsc is an obvious example. Though for minsc I beleive they made some silly excuse like he got petrified and then cured just in time to be in BG3 so maybe there's been a rash of incredibly convenient petrifications in the forgotten realms.

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

It's always annoying when devs used established characters as a cheap springboard for their new ones. Just goes to show their new characters can't stand on their own very well.

[Vice]

I really did enjoy redeeming Viconia and Saervok in BG2...but, all the canon lore from the earlier bg's do the most weaksauce options it seems sadly (the OG Bhaalspawn doesnt even romance anyone - nobody gets redeemed - etc. ) but I guess Larian preferred old enemies rather than new ones.

[Ser Tomato]

Appreciate your reply. Well said for Sarevok, but I disagree with Viconia part.

Firstly, Viconia's default ending in BG2 has nothing to do with her romance with Charname, but has everything to do with her true nature: a rebellious soul. That was in her original backstory and she needs no "redemption" to have that. Allow me to remind you, in Viconia's original ending, she didn't murder those cultists because Charname made her a kinder person, she killed those cultists because Shar wanted to ♥♥♥♥ her so she decided to ♥♥♥♥ back, which matches her older self in the Underdark.

Then BG3 changes her motive to "obeying Shar's order". Besides that, Viconia literally refused to sacrifice an infant to Lolth even when facing her own death (which was before BG1, she hasn't started the journey with Charname yet), and now she kidnaps and abuses children just because her goddess orders it? Plus, what BG3's Viconia did to Shadowheart's parents is very similar to what Lolth did to her brother, which has caused her nightmares and traumas in previous games. I guess she must have overcome that huh.

Secondly, nothing against you friend, but

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

She sometime later betrayed the party.
My theory is that she betrayed the party and then made room for Sarevok in the group.
Instead of going through a redemption arc and turning from Shar, her betraying the party means that she instead only had Shar to turn to and became a villain.
Alternatively, she went through the campaign with the team, unredeemed and unromanced by the main PC, then later betrayed them, then turned fully to Shar.

I think you're writing for the writers. They didn't tell this story, they took a default ending, retconned it to a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ new one, and then made players use their headcanon and theories to justify it. My question is, why the writers have to do this? There's an option called "simply don't use". Let me ask you this, did the writers really dig into the potential of an evil Viconia, did they really deliver a thoughtful tragic story about all of this is unavoidable and provide us some new context?

No, there is only cheap retcon. What we got is character downgrade, that mindless fanatic with a mustache is not a good enough villain for Act III even if her name is not Viconia. Viconia has one function and one function only in BG3: to be Shadowheart's stepping stone and punching bag. I really can't find any "respect" in the portrayal of her, only resentment. They even let Shadowheart say "nobody will remember you", well, ♥♥♥♥ off. (Not to you of course, thanks for replying.)

[Sachery]

When I meet Viconia in bg3, I was thinking who is this imposter, she dont look or sound or act like Viconia from bg1/bg2.

[LordOfTheBread]

oh no! Characters madfe up by another companu over 20 years ago were not respected? The horror!

[gunser]

That's true, anyone who likes these 2 characters can see this, it's unfortunate that this game was developed by people who don't really like BG, yet it's called BG3, just look at Minsc's attributes and you know they don't care about BG fans.

[Ser Tomato]

Originally posted by LordOfTheBread:

oh no! Characters madfe up by another companu over 20 years ago were not respected? The horror!

What a mature response, guess you're okay with "Karlach the mass murderer" or "Astarion the Cazador worshipper" in BG4? Cause they're on the chopping block rn.

[Ser Tomato]

Originally posted by Sachery:

When I meet Viconia in bg3, I was thinking who is this imposter, she dont look or sound or act like Viconia from bg1/bg2.

That actually would be a solution which I mentioned in my article, that when the player kills these two they just turn to doppelgangers, as some talentless hacks wanted to use old characters' fame to achieve something. It's cheap, but far better than what we got now.

[LordOfTheBread]

Originally posted by Ser Tomato:

Originally posted by LordOfTheBread:

oh no! Characters madfe up by another companu over 20 years ago were not respected? The horror!

What a mature response, guess you're okay with "Karlach the mass murderer" or "Astarion the Cazador worshipper" in BG4? Cause they're on the chopping block rn.

Yeah, I'm totally OK with Karlach mass murdering demons. I killeed Astareion in both my playthrough when he tried to bite me so yep, totally fine.

BG4 doesn't exist so I don't care, BG1 and BG2 are now ancient AF I moved on from themn ages ago so should you.

[Ser Tomato]

Originally posted by LordOfTheBread:

Originally posted by Ser Tomato:

What a mature response, guess you're okay with "Karlach the mass murderer" or "Astarion the Cazador worshipper" in BG4? Cause they're on the chopping block rn.

Yeah, I'm totally OK with Karlach mass murdering demons. I killeed Astareion in both my playthrough when he tried to bite me so yep, totally fine.

BG4 doesn't exist so I don't care, BG1 and BG2 are now ancient AF I moved on from themn ages ago so should you.

Why don't you tell developers to "move on" from old games, considering they are the ones who claimed they want to "pay respect" to the classic series in interviews and used old characters in their publicity? I got no problem if they completely delete these two from BG3.

Though your response tells a lot, so you do you.