WTF... forced to transition to half-illithid at the start of Act 3

[d1xsmle]

After the big fight at the start of Act 3, the Emperor offered me the chance to transform to half-illithid, I refused. I then had to pass a 21 ( i.e. impossible) wisdom check in order not to do so Of course, I failed and got transformed against my will. I assume that this is a bug. Could anybody help?

[Toaster Maximus]

Originally posted by LivingVitae:

Originally posted by Galzra87:

the "lose your soul" bit comes from the books and overall lore of DnD. An illithid is created when the tadpole consumes fully its host and uses that to become illithid. Nothing of the host remains really, the soul is destroyed by the transformation, the memories and personality MAY stay for a bit, but in the end, the personality will go away too.
Omeluum is, as far as i know, the only known exception of an illithid that developped a personality that isn't evil and that may be because he is a mage (which never happens in illithids) or because of his ring of mental shielding (which the games hints at having been on omeluum from before he became an illithid).
In the game, the illithid tadpoles you gather are tainted by something, which changes how they act and react in your body. They are, in fact, corrupted, which allows for the "partial" transformation, allowing you to transform parts of your brain into illithid brain, making you able to use the psionic powers all illithid possess naturally.

I don't get this. Illithids can become liches and therefore must have souls - where in canon does it say otherwise? There are other places in canon that also conflict with the game on this point. Frankly, original poster is correct, it really feels like a rough draft.

More correctly the nature of their soul is different the phrasing of it is not no they don't have souls spirit essence or whatever its they don't have this given spirit type which makes sense since they are from the far realm

They are meant to be completely alien after all on every single level things from the far realm are a conflict in normal logic is why its hard to get a grasp of things, I have taken they don't have a given soul type so Ao has no influence over them since they are out of his control and the dead three are using the far realm's nature and creating an army of followers to by pass the over god.

But yeah anything in the fart realm is going to sound like a rough draft less you put time into thinking about it


The far realm is a place that has existed, will always exist and up can be down and left is right its outside of time and space, so anything from their is a completely different type of being from anything in the outer, inner lower or prime planes, Its kinda up to the story teller to decide how they handle the spirit side of things from the far realms, Has a result that leaves a lot to sound like rough drafts

Sorry for the wall and errors, just the far realms is confusing along with things from there are left in the grey zone a lot

[Anima Mundi]

it really feels like a rough draft.

Rough draft? becoming half illithid is kind of a drag for my otherwise gorgeous looking Tav.
but going full squidboy after eating orpheus is amazingly satisfying.
The game giving that option was surprising, and honestly the most fun i had in terms of decision-dependent paths. too bad it only lasts 2 battles.
Actually waiting for a mod that let's you play illithid, or i may eventually try to make an illithid class myself. Just generally dislike modding in Lua though. Would also feel very anticlimatic to walk around squid boy with NPCs acting like it's normal

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

It's all inane gobbledygook, the problem is that it isn't self-consistent inane gobbledygook.

[Toaster Maximus]

Originally posted by Anima Mundi:

it really feels like a rough draft.

Rough draft? becoming half illithid is kind of a drag for my otherwise gorgeous looking Tav.
but going full squidboy after eating orpheus is amazingly satisfying.
The game giving that option was surprising, and honestly the most fun i had in terms of decision-dependent paths. too bad it only lasts 2 battles.
Actually waiting for a mod that let's you play illithid, or i may eventually try to make an illithid class myself. Just generally dislike modding in Lua though. Would also feel very anticlimatic to walk around squid boy with NPCs acting like it's normal

New people getting introduced to the far realms, it really is home to a bunch of fun stuff but for new comers would come off has a draft.

[Anima Mundi]

but then again, you can always just refuse both morphosis. Even the astral plane tadpole, if im remembering correctly you can just take the worm and squish it

[Toaster Maximus]

Just be glad they didn't bring back Uvuudaum those things are freaky looking

[Anima Mundi]

don't give me ideas

[FappingMad]

better then my 99 I had to roll twice

[Toaster Maximus]

Originally posted by Sapper:

better then my 99 I had to roll twice

What did you do eat every single tadpole and not share?

[Cartesian Duelist]

Originally posted by insolent1:

Iirc you can drop it on ground and stand on it, no check required.

I was able to do this as well. No roll was necessary and no transformation happened.

[Anima Mundi]

I liked the option to eat it. Crispy but juicy

[Archangel47]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

The DC is based on how many tadpoles you have used; it's your punishment for using being a tadpole-addict.

Moreover, DC 30 is what is generally considered "impossible" (by PHB standards); 21 is doable by rolling a 20, which is an instant success in BG3, or having at least a +1 modifier in Wisdom.

Even if the DC is 30, if you roll a natural 20 it's successful. I've done it more than once.

[Neon Robot]

Originally posted by Galzra87:

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

I feel like the whole "lose your soul" thing plays out like a rough draft of a script that someone forgot to finish.

It does seem like there should be permanent consequences to the parasites, but as far as I know there are not -- unless you fully transform.

Meanwhile, the ability to fly on demand is -- by itself, even leaving aside all the other great powers you can get -- fully powerful enough to justify making every person in your party partial-illithid. At least, it is from a game-play perspective. Possibly problematic from a role-play perspective.

the "lose your soul" bit comes from the books and overall lore of DnD. An illithid is created when the tadpole consumes fully its host and uses that to become illithid. Nothing of the host remains really, the soul is destroyed by the transformation, the memories and personality MAY stay for a bit, but in the end, the personality will go away too.
Omeluum is, as far as i know, the only known exception of an illithid that developped a personality that isn't evil and that may be because he is a mage (which never happens in illithids) or because of his ring of mental shielding (which the games hints at having been on omeluum from before he became an illithid).
In the game, the illithid tadpoles you gather are tainted by something, which changes how they act and react in your body. They are, in fact, corrupted, which allows for the "partial" transformation, allowing you to transform parts of your brain into illithid brain, making you able to use the psionic powers all illithid possess naturally.

That's not from the overall lore of D&D. It directly is opposed by the fact that Illithid Liches and Illithid Ghosts exist. I've been playing D&D since '97 and haven't seen anything that suggests they're soulless. In fact the existence of Illithiliches, Illithid Ghosts, and Illithid Undead kind of create a lore issue here. Not only that but while most Illithid's only desire to join the Elder Brain those that worship Illsensine do so because they believe the deity would take their souls in.

Quoting from Volo's guide for further clarification on, Pg.80 "Illithids acknowledge the existence of divine entities, but it is unusual for any but a deviant mind flayer to actively worship such a power. Since the are capable of planar travel, illithids don't view the afterlife and the Outer Planes in the mythic way that most other races do. Illithids don't believe they possess souls whose eternal fate is governed by the gods. Instead, when a mind flayer's brain is returned to the elder brain to be consumed, the creature's intelligence lives on. Only if an illithid's brain isn't retrieved after death would its consciousnesses be cast into oblivion."

The way I read this is that they believe they have souls, they're just not governed by any god usually, see Illsensine. Further, since the Illithid are effectively all faithless their soul on death is either destroyed shortly thereafter or cast into a literal void, lost forever in eternal blackness. With this reading you can still have Illithid undead while keeping some of the lore implications.

That being said, I am more likely to believe that Larian just wrote their story with little oversight from Wizard's cause they had a neat plot idea and everyone is just rolling with it now. Just like how they got some of the lore related to Thay wrong in their movie. A movie in which Thay plays a central role.

[nullpo]

you get a high dice check if you eat tadpole, but if you don't you, no dice check for you. So if you don't want to be half mind flayer, don't eat the tadpole.

[Toaster Maximus]

Originally posted by Neon Robot:

Originally posted by Galzra87:

the "lose your soul" bit comes from the books and overall lore of DnD. An illithid is created when the tadpole consumes fully its host and uses that to become illithid. Nothing of the host remains really, the soul is destroyed by the transformation, the memories and personality MAY stay for a bit, but in the end, the personality will go away too.
Omeluum is, as far as i know, the only known exception of an illithid that developped a personality that isn't evil and that may be because he is a mage (which never happens in illithids) or because of his ring of mental shielding (which the games hints at having been on omeluum from before he became an illithid).
In the game, the illithid tadpoles you gather are tainted by something, which changes how they act and react in your body. They are, in fact, corrupted, which allows for the "partial" transformation, allowing you to transform parts of your brain into illithid brain, making you able to use the psionic powers all illithid possess naturally.

That's not from the overall lore of D&D. It directly is opposed by the fact that Illithid Liches and Illithid Ghosts exist. I've been playing D&D since '97 and haven't seen anything that suggests they're soulless. In fact the existence of Illithiliches, Illithid Ghosts, and Illithid Undead kind of create a lore issue here. Not only that but while most Illithid's only desire to join the Elder Brain those that worship Illsensine do so because they believe the deity would take their souls in.

Quoting from Volo's guide for further clarification on, Pg.80 "Illithids acknowledge the existence of divine entities, but it is unusual for any but a deviant mind flayer to actively worship such a power. Since the are capable of planar travel, illithids don't view the afterlife and the Outer Planes in the mythic way that most other races do. Illithids don't believe they possess souls whose eternal fate is governed by the gods. Instead, when a mind flayer's brain is returned to the elder brain to be consumed, the creature's intelligence lives on. Only if an illithid's brain isn't retrieved after death would its consciousnesses be cast into oblivion."

The way I read this is that they believe they have souls, they're just not governed by any god usually, see Illsensine. Further, since the Illithid are effectively all faithless their soul on death is either destroyed shortly thereafter or cast into a literal void, lost forever in eternal blackness. With this reading you can still have Illithid undead while keeping some of the lore implications.

That being said, I am more likely to believe that Larian just wrote their story with little oversight from Wizard's cause they had a neat plot idea and everyone is just rolling with it now. Just like how they got some of the lore related to Thay wrong in their movie. A movie in which Thay plays a central role.

They go back to the far realm that is thhhe void for them basically cause they are outside of things remember the far realm is outside of the normal planer stuff

Have not seen anything that says that has changed. Just my thoughts on how to see that, Ao's rules don't touch them why the gith keeping them counter balanced and other foes is good