Karlach rejection the only one done right?

[gbuglyo]

As a no-romance player, I have some gripes with the way the romance system generally works. Nearly all of my companions have made a very direct move on my character, and the only way to avoid romance was to say "no, I am not interested in you", at which point the game inevitably made me come across as an a-hole. With Karlach, however, it was surprisingly simple: as she became capable of physical contact without burning anyone, she casually mentioned wanting to cuddle up with someone after all that time alone, but the game allowed me to steer away the conversation easily. No hurt feelings, nothing along the usual lines of "Please, please give me a chance!" I couldn't help but feel how much smoother it would be if all the other rejections worked like that, too. What do you think?

[Quacksalber]

Publicado originalmente por Mike Garrison:

Publicado originalmente por EH!:

That sounds like a bug. When you romance her, she has a ! on top of her head and asks you.

I'm telling you, she just woke me up in the night and assumed I was as ready for it as she was.

Lae'zel does the same thing -- wakes you up in the night like that, but in her case asks to fight.

In both cases you can say no, but they are obviously unhappy about your choice. Whatever. Can't control people's (or video game characters') unhappiness.

I am not complaining about the romances. I like them. But it is *very* easy to be on the romance path for quite a few of them all at the same time, even without trying or realizing. And that leads to the rejection scenes that often seem to come out of nowhere.

(Not so different from real life, when a friend suddenly hits on you. A thing that does happen.)

I agree with all you said, but you go through a bunch of scenes with Karlach trying to cool her down, etc. and then she talks about doing it twice beforehand, too. Pretty sure if she wakes you up without any of that happening beforehand, it's a bug.

[Bubblelady]

Publicado originalmente por Mike Garrison:

Publicado originalmente por gbuglyo:

Nearly all of my companions have made a very direct move on my character, and the only way to avoid romance was to say "no, I am not interested in you", at which point the game inevitably made me come across as an a-hole. With Karlach, however, it was surprisingly simple: as she became capable of physical contact without burning anyone, she casually mentioned wanting to cuddle up with someone after all that time alone, but the game allowed me to steer away the conversation easily. No hurt feelings, nothing along the usual lines of "Please, please give me a chance!" I couldn't help but feel how much smoother it would be if all the other rejections worked like that, too. What do you think?

I have had Karlach wake Tav up in the night and ask Tav to have sex with her, even when Tav was already romancing someone else. And when you say "no", she doesn't beg or anything, but she does sound pretty sad about it. So, no, Karlach is not an exception.

Romances can be confusing in BG3, when we don't consider that this confusion is mostly due to cultural shocks (they are humanoid, not human), and time at least 15 years passed between the beginning of Act II and Act III, but the game fails on illustrating it.

Cultural shocks happen all the time in real life, more often than most realize. In several countries a polite American may appear to be flirting with someone (a local) - just for being polite - it is just an example.

In Act I Lae'zel admires Tav, but she isn't in what she consider a romance yet, she just wants to use your body and she says it clearly, Astarion is pretty much in a similar vibe. For both of them sex isn't about feelings, it is more like drinking a cup of coffee that you like - or don't dislike - in the morning.

I'm having lots of fun making different characters doing quests and dialogues differently, and companions' reactions in romance can be hilarious.

[Apex Artist]

Publicado originalmente por Mike Garrison:

I am not complaining about the romances. I like them. But it is *very* easy to be on the romance path for quite a few of them all at the same time, even without trying or realizing. And that leads to the rejection scenes that often seem to come out of nowhere.

(Not so different from real life, when a friend suddenly hits on you. A thing that does happen.)

I've had this very situation happen to me twice in my life. Both times as I'm prepping to relocate due to a career move, a good friend has sprung it on me that they'd imagined us becoming much more than friends. This left me in a tough and unexpected position both times.
So some of these clanky relations in BG3 seem plausible given my own life experience.

[Gracey Face]

Publicado originalmente por gbuglyo:

As a no-romance player, I have some gripes with the way the romance system generally works. Nearly all of my companions have made a very direct move on my character, and the only way to avoid romance was to say "no, I am not interested in you", at which point the game inevitably made me come across as an a-hole. With Karlach, however, it was surprisingly simple: as she became capable of physical contact without burning anyone, she casually mentioned wanting to cuddle up with someone after all that time alone, but the game allowed me to steer away the conversation easily. No hurt feelings, nothing along the usual lines of "Please, please give me a chance!" I couldn't help but feel how much smoother it would be if all the other rejections worked like that, too. What do you think?

She pestered me about it roughly 4 times after initially turning her down. Are you saying she didn't for you?

[gbuglyo]

Publicado originalmente por Gracey Face:

Publicado originalmente por gbuglyo:

As a no-romance player, I have some gripes with the way the romance system generally works. Nearly all of my companions have made a very direct move on my character, and the only way to avoid romance was to say "no, I am not interested in you", at which point the game inevitably made me come across as an a-hole. With Karlach, however, it was surprisingly simple: as she became capable of physical contact without burning anyone, she casually mentioned wanting to cuddle up with someone after all that time alone, but the game allowed me to steer away the conversation easily. No hurt feelings, nothing along the usual lines of "Please, please give me a chance!" I couldn't help but feel how much smoother it would be if all the other rejections worked like that, too. What do you think?

She pestered me about it roughly 4 times after initially turning her down. Are you saying she didn't for you?

In my playthrough, she didn't.

[Gracey Face]

Publicado originalmente por gbuglyo:

Publicado originalmente por Gracey Face:

She pestered me about it roughly 4 times after initially turning her down. Are you saying she didn't for you?

In my playthrough, she didn't.

Damn, you must be ugly then.

[gbuglyo]

Publicado originalmente por Gracey Face:

Publicado originalmente por gbuglyo:

In my playthrough, she didn't.

Damn, you must be ugly then.

It does come with its perks. ;)

[Zeel Ara]

That's just not how the real world works. Rejecting someone is hard. If everyone were super cheerful about it you would have people screaming and crying that the companions were unrealistic and that they had no true feelings for the main character but were just interested in sex.

There are no consequences in game to rejecting anyone. It's completely fair that you dislike what you dislike, but asking for major game changes so you can avoid seeing 2 lines of dialogue that can be instantly skipped with the press of a button is more than a little entitled. Part of being a grown-up is to handle the small challenges life throws at you. Surely you can manage to press space a few time quickly after each other.

[gbuglyo]

Publicado originalmente por Ratley:

That's just not how the real world works. Rejecting someone is hard. If everyone were super cheerful about it you would have people screaming and crying that the companions were unrealistic and that they had no true feelings for the main character but were just interested in sex.

There are no consequences in game to rejecting anyone. It's completely fair that you dislike what you dislike, but asking for major game changes so you can avoid seeing 2 lines of dialogue that can be instantly skipped with the press of a button is more than a little entitled. Part of being a grown-up is to handle the small challenges life throws at you. Surely you can manage to press space a few time quickly after each other.

If anything, it would make the game more realistic. In real life, when people have their eyes on someone, they tentatively assess if the other person might reciprocate the feeling, they don't just confess out of the blue to people they barely know. Burdening a fantasy story based in the Forgotten Realms with not one, not two, but 7+ romantic confession scenes followed by hurt feelings is jarring and not realistic. But then, if handling a story and dialogues is all about pressing buttons for you, you're probably not very much into immersion or roleplaying, so our perspectives are likely different.

[Mike Garrison]

Publicado originalmente por gbuglyo:

Publicado originalmente por Ratley:

That's just not how the real world works. Rejecting someone is hard. If everyone were super cheerful about it you would have people screaming and crying that the companions were unrealistic and that they had no true feelings for the main character but were just interested in sex.

There are no consequences in game to rejecting anyone. It's completely fair that you dislike what you dislike, but asking for major game changes so you can avoid seeing 2 lines of dialogue that can be instantly skipped with the press of a button is more than a little entitled. Part of being a grown-up is to handle the small challenges life throws at you. Surely you can manage to press space a few time quickly after each other.

If anything, it would make the game more realistic. In real life, when people have their eyes on someone, they tentatively assess if the other person might reciprocate the feeling, they don't just confess out of the blue to people they barely know. Burdening a fantasy story based in the Forgotten Realms with not one, not two, but 7+ romantic confession scenes followed by hurt feelings is jarring and not realistic. But then, if handling a story and dialogues is all about pressing buttons for you, you're probably not very much into immersion or roleplaying, so our perspectives are likely different.

The last time I had a mind flayer tadpole inserted into me in the real world, I did have several other victims of the same mind flayers fall in love with me by about the time I learned to throw fireballs. So in my real world experience, this actually checks out.

[gbuglyo]

Publicado originalmente por Mike Garrison:

Publicado originalmente por gbuglyo:

If anything, it would make the game more realistic. In real life, when people have their eyes on someone, they tentatively assess if the other person might reciprocate the feeling, they don't just confess out of the blue to people they barely know. Burdening a fantasy story based in the Forgotten Realms with not one, not two, but 7+ romantic confession scenes followed by hurt feelings is jarring and not realistic. But then, if handling a story and dialogues is all about pressing buttons for you, you're probably not very much into immersion or roleplaying, so our perspectives are likely different.

The last time I had a mind flayer tadpole inserted into me in the real world, I did have several other victims of the same mind flayers fall in love with me by about the time I learned to throw fireballs. So in my real world experience, this actually checks out.

Even if there are mind flayers and fireballs in a story, mature audiences still expect other aspects such as human emotions and behavior to be realistic. The very basics of writing genre fiction.

[Mike Garrison]

It's a game where you go from barely being able to tie your shoes to defeating a god in the span of about a month. I have fallen in love in the real world quicker than that -- no sarcasm this time.

[gbuglyo]

Publicado originalmente por Mike Garrison:

It's a game where you go from barely being able to tie your shoes to defeating a god in the span of about a month. I have fallen in love in the real world quicker than that -- no sarcasm this time.

Yeah, I see your point and I can agree with that. But for my taste, the game is a bit too romance-focused. I mean, even apart from the companions' advances, there are plenty of other scenes with talk about love and how or why your character is not in love, like Withers mocking you for being single or that dryad woman at the circus who wants to foretell the future of your relationship. There's no option to tell her you're not interested in a relationship currently, only to "leave" abruptly in the middle of the dialogue. Also, among the NPCs who know each other, a great many are romantic couples. You do see a few parent-child relationships but you rarely if ever encounter siblings, cousins, friends, work acquaintances and whatnot. This is a good indicator of the writers’ fixation with romance and it sometimes makes me feel like I'm playing a Valentine’s Day edition of Baldur’s Gate. :) It might just be my personal preference, but I've never had this experience with a game before (I don't play dating simulators).

[Mike Garrison]

I mentioned Wildermyth before, and in that game you generally watch your characters go from being young adventures to being elderly and retiring -- or dying in battle. (Your characters can also get permanently maimed, too.) And if they fall in love, as some of them do, their kids can end up joining your party years later.

Different games focus on different aspects of life and role-playing.

[gbuglyo]

Publicado originalmente por Mike Garrison:

I mentioned Wildermyth before, and in that game you generally watch your characters go from being young adventures to being elderly and retiring -- or dying in battle. (Your characters can also get permanently maimed, too.) And if they fall in love, as some of them do, their kids can end up joining your party years later.

Different games focus on different aspects of life and role-playing.

Yeah, I love Wildermyth. Some of its random events and transformations are just wacky! And even when replaying the same campaign, you never know what happens next. :)