Okay so, what is Descent into Avernus's canon ending? Obvious spoilers

[spider]

Is Elturel still in the hells? There's not really any reference to any of the chapter 1 events in the written adventure, which, considering it has to do with the dead three attempting to subvert the flaming fist so that a bane-worshipping noble can take over baldur's gate, which is a plot anyone who has made it to act 3 in this game is maybe a bit familiar with.

So we know Zariel isn't redeemed coz Baldur's Gate 3 is very obviously after Elturel fell. Like I don't need to tell anyone that. Zevlor is a freaking Hellrider and just as much a coward as any other, by my estimation.

So Ravenguard totally made it out of the temple, and somehow makes it back to realmspace. Okay. I've not been able to play this game where Ravenguard survives me meeting him, and I think I might have totally pruned his family tree which I wasn't intending but hey ho, dark urge.

Maybe it's that google is literally the worst and you can't actually figure anything out by searching on it, I don't use reddit, so I'm here.

The main things I suppose that are worth knowing, and might actually be in this game:

1, so did anyone ever bring elturel back?
2, if Zariel is still the boss is like, the shield of the hidden lord still up here, or is it down there now?
3, the companion isn't narratively the most important thing but, like, is that also still in the hells?
4, so what, did the entire descent into avernus party just die?
5, is it even canon that Baldur's Gate 3 is the second time in like 3 years or so that this exact situation happened in this city?
6, so is lord Bel still down there too? I am willing to accept literally no change to the status quo but, is Bel still there?
7, Zariel still using Matalok? Does she now have the Blade of Avernus?

It's obviously super hopeful to figure literally anything at all that specific but, I don't even know if the city is ACTUALLY THERE. People only seem to make reference to "it fell" even corpses I talk to, only speak of elturel as though it's no longer there.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by THE LEGENDARY DARK KNIGHT SPIDER:

Okay so, what is Descent into Avernus's canon ending? Obvious spoilers
Is Elturel still in the hells? There's not really any reference to any of the chapter 1 events in the written adventure, which, considering it has to do with the dead three attempting to subvert the flaming fist so that a bane-worshipping noble can take over baldur's gate, which is a plot anyone who has made it to act 3 in this game is maybe a bit familiar with.

So we know Zariel isn't redeemed coz Baldur's Gate 3 is very obviously after Elturel fell. Like I don't need to tell anyone that. Zevlor is a freaking Hellrider and just as much a coward as any other, by my estimation.

So Ravenguard totally made it out of the temple, and somehow makes it back to realmspace. Okay. I've not been able to play this game where Ravenguard survives me meeting him, and I think I might have totally pruned his family tree which I wasn't intending but hey ho, dark urge.

Maybe it's that google is literally the worst and you can't actually figure anything out by searching on it, I don't use reddit, so I'm here.

The main things I suppose that are worth knowing, and might actually be in this game:

1, so did anyone ever bring elturel back?
2, if Zariel is still the boss is like, the shield of the hidden lord still up here, or is it down there now?
3, the companion isn't narratively the most important thing but, like, is that also still in the hells?
4, so what, did the entire descent into avernus party just die?
5, is it even canon that Baldur's Gate 3 is the second time in like 3 years or so that this exact situation happened in this city?
6, so is lord Bel still down there too? I am willing to accept literally no change to the status quo but, is Bel still there?
7, Zariel still using Matalok? Does she now have the Blade of Avernus?

It's obviously super hopeful to figure literally anything at all that specific but, I don't even know if the city is ACTUALLY THERE. People only seem to make reference to "it fell" even corpses I talk to, only speak of elturel as though it's no longer there.

The canon ending can be read in the official D&D comic Infernal Tides, with Elturel saved. Otherwise the Tieflings would still be in hell, as the one you meet in the grove are refugees who are "exiled" after the Elturel's fall.

Any more than that is to players' choice as it is an adventure meant to be played after all.

[spider]

may as well call it there, then. I've never heard of "infernal tides" and even then, I can easily understand "exiled" from elturel as "kicked out of hell"

because I don't hear a single person conclusively say that it is a city you can actually go to right now. I only hear people come FROM elturgard.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by THE LEGENDARY DARK KNIGHT SPIDER:

may as well call it there, then. I've never heard of "infernal tides" and even then, I can easily understand "exiled" from elturel as "kicked out of hell"

because I don't hear a single person conclusively say that it is a city you can actually go to right now. I only hear people come FROM elturgard.

I do not know your sources from Google and I have no intention to spoil it for you. But what you experience in game, without any additional information on the actual adventure or comic is

The Tieflings are on the run. Driven away / exiled - both do not really fit the term as it is a typical societical situation they are experiencing right now. Basically the story of Baldur's Gate 3 happens more or less quite shortly after Elturel fell into hell.

Now imagine it like this: a whole city swallowed up by the surface straight into another plane - not by catastrophe but by devil's magic caused by a contract. Basically a whole city including all of its inhabitants damned without a way to exit or fight back.

Once they got out they are not just wary, but anxious towards everything related to the hells and the devils, naturally. And Tieflings... well, are Tieflings. Generally speaking innocent decendents of those who had a pact with a devil, one way or another, depending on which sourcebook you refer to.

The rest you experience in game, with the Tieflings running away since the people do not want them any more and worse. It is not that they are actually exiled or actually driven away. There are laws to protect them. If you look at paralells it is easy to find them in real life, like live in the news.

Descent Into Avernus is one of the greater adventures the current edition of D&D has to offer, despite its complexity. It is full of lore and battles, only the latest Dragonlance campaign can beat.

The comic Infernal Tides is like a short summary of that adventure from the point of view of our beloved ranger and friends. I recommend the latest D&D comics with Jim Zub as lead.

Fans have noticed by now: the sequel Mindbreaker was released long before Baldur's Gate 3. But it is basically referencing Baldur's Gate 3 right from the start. Not to mention something similar happened with one of the earliest Baldur's Gate 3 teaser, which basically was a full reference to the start of that comic series.

Give it a look if you are interested. The art of the main series is awesome and Boo's special night adventure is one of my favourites.

[EricHVela]

It's sad. Even though, canonically, Tieflings helped save Elturel, they were still shunned simply for something that's not their fault.

A lore check when meeting that first Tiefling in the Grove will give a little extra info on Descent into Avernus, but he will not go into great detail about it regardless. All we know is that Elturel returned from the first Plane of the Hells and innocent, resident Tieflings became persecuted.

They had the choice of removing Elturel from the Material Plane, requiring players to go to Avernus to have any adventures there or return it from Avernus, allowing players to more readily continue the saga.

(I still remember Viva La Dirt League D&D's playthrough of DiA. The player characters all just wanted to go home back in a different world/sphere/whatever, and every time they'd get close to achieving that, something would pull them into further adventuring. When, already after a few hours of adventuring and begging for a way to return to their world, Elturel fell and the NPC told the party about it, their response was to start chanting over and over: "We're sorry about your loss. Can we go home? We're sorry about your loss. Can we go home? etc.")

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by EricHVela:

It's sad. Even though, canonically, Tieflings helped save Elturel, they were still shunned simply for something that's not their fault.

A lore check when meeting that first Tiefling in the Grove will give a little extra info on Descent into Avernus, but he will not go into great detail about it regardless. All we know is that Elturel returned from the first Plane of the Hells and innocent, resident Tieflings became persecuted.

They had the choice of removing Elturel from the Material Plane, requiring players to go to Avernus to have any adventures there or return it from Avernus, allowing players to more readily continue the saga.

(I still remember Viva La Dirt League D&D's playthrough of DiA. The player characters all just wanted to go home back in a different world/sphere/whatever, and every time they'd get close to achieving that, something would pull them into further adventuring. When, already after a few hours of adventuring and begging for a way to return to their world, Elturel fell and the NPC told the party about it, their response was to start chanting over and over: "We're sorry about your loss. Can we go home? We're sorry about your loss. Can we go home? etc.")

Could have been the Saturday Morning cast.

[kingonads]

Originally posted by THE LEGENDARY DARK KNIGHT SPIDER:

Is Elturel still in the hells? There's not really any reference to any of the chapter 1 events in the written adventure, which, considering it has to do with the dead three attempting to subvert the flaming fist so that a bane-worshipping noble can take over baldur's gate, which is a plot anyone who has made it to act 3 in this game is maybe a bit familiar with.

So we know Zariel isn't redeemed coz Baldur's Gate 3 is very obviously after Elturel fell. Like I don't need to tell anyone that. Zevlor is a freaking Hellrider and just as much a coward as any other, by my estimation.

So Ravenguard totally made it out of the temple, and somehow makes it back to realmspace. Okay. I've not been able to play this game where Ravenguard survives me meeting him, and I think I might have totally pruned his family tree which I wasn't intending but hey ho, dark urge.

Maybe it's that google is literally the worst and you can't actually figure anything out by searching on it, I don't use reddit, so I'm here.

The main things I suppose that are worth knowing, and might actually be in this game:

1, so did anyone ever bring elturel back?
2, if Zariel is still the boss is like, the shield of the hidden lord still up here, or is it down there now?
3, the companion isn't narratively the most important thing but, like, is that also still in the hells?
4, so what, did the entire descent into avernus party just die?
5, is it even canon that Baldur's Gate 3 is the second time in like 3 years or so that this exact situation happened in this city?
6, so is lord Bel still down there too? I am willing to accept literally no change to the status quo but, is Bel still there?
7, Zariel still using Matalok? Does she now have the Blade of Avernus?

It's obviously super hopeful to figure literally anything at all that specific but, I don't even know if the city is ACTUALLY THERE. People only seem to make reference to "it fell" even corpses I talk to, only speak of elturel as though it's no longer there.

Elturel returned to Faerun... And Duke Ravenguard was part of the defense of Elturel which is why he is a hero to many in Baldur's Gate AND those Tieflings from Elturel.

I suggest reading the Forgotten Realms Wiki for quick snip-its of the history or lore. At his point in D&D history it is around 1490s DR. Which is about 100+ years after Baldur's Gate 1 which is set in Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd ed.

A LOT happened over that 100 or so years... A LOT... fun fact 3 humans in the game were alive for ALL of it.

Volo,
Elmenster
and Minsc.
Jaheara too.. but she is a half.

[spider]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by THE LEGENDARY DARK KNIGHT SPIDER:

may as well call it there, then. I've never heard of "infernal tides" and even then, I can easily understand "exiled" from elturel as "kicked out of hell"

because I don't hear a single person conclusively say that it is a city you can actually go to right now. I only hear people come FROM elturgard.

I do not know your sources from Google and I have no intention to spoil it for you. But what you experience in game, without any additional information on the actual adventure or comic is

The Tieflings are on the run. Driven away / exiled - both do not really fit the term as it is a typical societical situation they are experiencing right now. Basically the story of Baldur's Gate 3 happens more or less quite shortly after Elturel fell into hell.

Now imagine it like this: a whole city swallowed up by the surface straight into another plane - not by catastrophe but by devil's magic caused by a contract. Basically a whole city including all of its inhabitants damned without a way to exit or fight back.

Once they got out they are not just wary, but anxious towards everything related to the hells and the devils, naturally. And Tieflings... well, are Tieflings. Generally speaking innocent decendents of those who had a pact with a devil, one way or another, depending on which sourcebook you refer to.

The rest you experience in game, with the Tieflings running away since the people do not want them any more and worse. It is not that they are actually exiled or actually driven away. There are laws to protect them. If you look at paralells it is easy to find them in real life, like live in the news.

Descent Into Avernus is one of the greater adventures the current edition of D&D has to offer, despite its complexity. It is full of lore and battles, only the latest Dragonlance campaign can beat.

The comic Infernal Tides is like a short summary of that adventure from the point of view of our beloved ranger and friends. I recommend the latest D&D comics with Jim Zub as lead.

Fans have noticed by now: the sequel Mindbreaker was released long before Baldur's Gate 3. But it is basically referencing Baldur's Gate 3 right from the start. Not to mention something similar happened with one of the earliest Baldur's Gate 3 teaser, which basically was a full reference to the start of that comic series.

Give it a look if you are interested. The art of the main series is awesome and Boo's special night adventure is one of my favourites. :spacehamster:

I appreciate you trying to sell me on the adventure but I am currently running it for my home group

[spider]

Originally posted by kingonads:

Originally posted by THE LEGENDARY DARK KNIGHT SPIDER:

Is Elturel still in the hells? There's not really any reference to any of the chapter 1 events in the written adventure, which, considering it has to do with the dead three attempting to subvert the flaming fist so that a bane-worshipping noble can take over baldur's gate, which is a plot anyone who has made it to act 3 in this game is maybe a bit familiar with.

So we know Zariel isn't redeemed coz Baldur's Gate 3 is very obviously after Elturel fell. Like I don't need to tell anyone that. Zevlor is a freaking Hellrider and just as much a coward as any other, by my estimation.

So Ravenguard totally made it out of the temple, and somehow makes it back to realmspace. Okay. I've not been able to play this game where Ravenguard survives me meeting him, and I think I might have totally pruned his family tree which I wasn't intending but hey ho, dark urge.

Maybe it's that google is literally the worst and you can't actually figure anything out by searching on it, I don't use reddit, so I'm here.

The main things I suppose that are worth knowing, and might actually be in this game:

1, so did anyone ever bring elturel back?
2, if Zariel is still the boss is like, the shield of the hidden lord still up here, or is it down there now?
3, the companion isn't narratively the most important thing but, like, is that also still in the hells?
4, so what, did the entire descent into avernus party just die?
5, is it even canon that Baldur's Gate 3 is the second time in like 3 years or so that this exact situation happened in this city?
6, so is lord Bel still down there too? I am willing to accept literally no change to the status quo but, is Bel still there?
7, Zariel still using Matalok? Does she now have the Blade of Avernus?

It's obviously super hopeful to figure literally anything at all that specific but, I don't even know if the city is ACTUALLY THERE. People only seem to make reference to "it fell" even corpses I talk to, only speak of elturel as though it's no longer there.

Elturel returned to Faerun... And Duke Ravenguard was part of the defense of Elturel which is why he is a hero to many in Baldur's Gate AND those Tieflings from Elturel.

I suggest reading the Forgotten Realms Wiki for quick snip-its of the history or lore. At his point in D&D history it is around 1490s DR. Which is about 100+ years after Baldur's Gate 1 which is set in Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd ed.

A LOT happened over that 100 or so years... A LOT... fun fact 3 humans in the game were alive for ALL of it.

Volo,
Elmenster
and Minsc.
Jaheara too.. but she is a half.

Yeah I mentioned Ravenguard in the temple at all because he's in the adventure. I'm a little confused as to why you guys did this several times but, I am aware of all of the information I can find on every forgotten realms wiki and none of them definitively say what the ending of descent into avernus is. I guess this is covered by infernal tides? I actually can't find any synopsis on what actually occurs in that comic but as far as I can tell there's a bunch of them and it's likely one of those contains the answer I'm looking for.

[spider]

like how is it you guys think I didn't read the adventure that is descent into avernus when I namedrop zariel's hammer and reference a sidebar at the end of the adventure for forging the blade of avernus? something that the adventure says "lol the DM should figure this out?"

super weird. but yeah, the comic appears to have the answer lmao. yes I've seen the wiki. the wiki doesn't have that information. yes I know the tieflings are persecuted. none of them say that elturel isn't in the hells.

[brendan_in_china]

I believe the canon ending was the heroes got slaughtered at level 2 by that evil wizard under the Patriar estate in Baldur's Gate with fireball prepared and two level 3 spell slots.

That's in my adventure anyway.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by THE LEGENDARY DARK KNIGHT SPIDER:

like how is it you guys think I didn't read the adventure that is descent into avernus when I namedrop zariel's hammer and reference a sidebar at the end of the adventure for forging the blade of avernus? something that the adventure says "lol the DM should figure this out?"

super weird. but yeah, the comic appears to have the answer lmao. yes I've seen the wiki. the wiki doesn't have that information. yes I know the tieflings are persecuted. none of them say that elturel isn't in the hells.

Basically you own fault which I already have given you the answer to your question. You mentioned you looked up stuff on Google. No idea what you looked up. Whether you just have scraps of information or the whole no one knows.

You missed pieces of information from the game if you got to that conclusion. Not sure whether it is due to the wisdom checks or background information based on your character - but you get in fact the story in game that Elturel has been gotten back from the hells.

Probably worth for your next playthrough to keep an eye out for those information snippets if you are fan of them. I was delighted to see them and it felt like a sort of epilogue to the Descent of Avernus campaign. I cannot wait to start the Dragonlance one.

[Razorblade]

There is no canon ending as of now. BG3 goes with "Elturel was saved," hence why Zevlor's Tieflings comes from there.

Per BG3 lore, the Tieflings were scapegoated for the whole incident and banished from Elturel after it returned 'cause racism. As for Zariel's sword, I imagine it was broken to destroy Elturel's fake-sun-thing, thereby saving the city but damning Zariel (we know Zariel is still evil, as she sends Mizora to harass Karlach).

That being said, BG3 is itself not hard canon. Tabeltop ultimately determines canon, hence why BG3 is faithful to 5E canon, rather than the game canon of BG1 and BG2. Games, books, comics, and other media are all supplementary. They branch off from DnD canon, but they do not determine it.

However, until tabletop canon states otherwise, I suppose you could call BG3 "soft canon," which is subject to change or confirmation at a later date by official tabletop material. Likely, some of BG3's lore will be reused in later tabletop material, some stuff will be retconned, and most events in BG3 will never be mentioned again.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

There is no canon ending as of now. BG3 goes with "Elturel was saved," hence why Zevlor's Tieflings comes from there (they were scapegoated for the whole incident and banished 'cause racism).

That being said, BG3 is itself not hard canon. Tabeltop ultimately determines canon, hence why BG3 is faithful to 5E canon, rather than the game canon of BG1 and BG2. Games, books, comics, and other media are all supplementary. They branch off from DnD canon, but they do not determine it.

However, until tabletop canon states otherwise, I suppose you could call BG3 "soft canon," which is subject to change or confirmation at a later date by official tabletop material.

I doubt "tabletop" version of D&D gives any form of hard canon. Based on the interview videos from the official D&D channel and so on they are currently going quite a "liberal" way which is not bad, especially with the upcoming rulebooks revamps.

It might be disadvantageous for canon lovers, but it opens up for everyone else more. Whether the changes are likable by the end of the day, like how many races changed, might be up to each individual. But even for that the "backdoor" of Planescape has been opened up widely. Unlike Marvel and D.C. they did it not so bad. Also not as bad as what Wizards of the Coast did to Magic: The Gathering with the mending.

[Ruffio]

Maybe some would find this interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K6fvufmKUo&t=347s

[Razorblade]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

I doubt "tabletop" version of D&D gives any form of hard canon. Based on the interview videos from the official D&D channel and so on they are currently going quite a "liberal" way which is not bad, especially with the upcoming rulebooks revamps.

It might be disadvantageous for canon lovers, but it opens up for everyone else more. Whether the changes are likable by the end of the day, like how many races changed, might be up to each individual. But even for that the "backdoor" of Planescape has been opened up widely. Unlike Marvel and D.C. they did it not so bad. Also not as bad as what Wizards of the Coast did to Magic: The Gathering with the mending.

You can rationalize it however you want. Ultimately, supplimentary material always starts with tabletop as its base, then diverges from there. Once that supplementary material runs its course, a few things are established as "truths" of the universe, and everything else is lost, or actively overwritten (on purpose or accidentally) by newly estbalished tabletop material.

If WotC releases a tabletop module tomorrow that states "Elturel disappeared and never came back," that's what future DnD material is going to go with. Maybe Zevlor and gang will make it into BG4, since BG3 diverged at an earlier point, but by the time we get BG5 in 20 years, you can bet Elturel is going to be nothing but a crater in the ground if tabletop lore wills it.

Tabletop looks to tabletop lore for consistency, and every other piece of media looks to tabletop as well. Call it canon or not, but it's the de facto "canon" source.