Elven Chain not considered armour for monk?

[eileen_dallahan]

I've put the Elven Chain on my monk to see how it looked like and noticed some things I didn't expect. I'm a little confused. Is this as intended?

- Armour Class tooltip shows the following:
AC 21
14 from Armor
-4 from Unarmored Defence (??)
+5 from Dexterity
+3 from Wisdom
+1 from Cloak of Protection
+2 from Become the Bulwark (??)

- Movement Speed: 14m

My questions:

1) I don't get the -4 from Unarmoured Defence, shouldn't it simply not count the +3 WIS bonus, and therefore sum it up as 22 AC?

2) I'm lvl 10, 6 of them are monk levels. My movement speed is 14m when unarmored, shouldn't it be 9m with Elven Chain?

3) Become the Bulwark comes from Bracers of Defence, and this effect is only supposed to work if you are not wearing armour. So... Elven Chain is not considered armour to that effect?

The description doesn't mention monk unarmoured bonuses, but it does say it feels like wearing a cloud so I guess it is considered clothing? Or is that a bug?

If it is, I hope they don't nerf it. I'm
digging the +2 to initiative and Advantage in DEX saving throws

[Mike Garrison]

Elven chainmail is basically a reference to Bilbo's mithril armor from The Hobbit (later worn by Frodo in Lord Of The Rings). Pretty sure every version of D&D has had it, and (among other things) it allows spellcasting without needing any armor proficiency. It's generally sort of treated as "not actually armor", although I don't know the specific rules of D&D 5e.

[ImHelping]

Elven chain exists to help low AC bathrobe casters too cheap or lazy to cast mage armor or otherwise gain AC through class resources instead of cash.

Don't let the fact a martial class benefits distract you from the fact it is so hot for casters I have had to remind at least one GM I am not buying some for my wizard on principle.

[eileen_dallahan]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Elven chainmail is basically a reference to Bilbo's mithril armor from The Hobbit (later worn by Frodo in Lord Of The Rings). Pretty sure every version of D&D has had it, and (among other things) it allows spellcasting without needing any armor proficiency. It's generally sort of treated as "not actually armor", although I don't know the specific rules of D&D 5e.

But in that case wouldn't AC be 25 instead of 21?

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by eileen_dallahan:

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Elven chainmail is basically a reference to Bilbo's mithril armor from The Hobbit (later worn by Frodo in Lord Of The Rings). Pretty sure every version of D&D has had it, and (among other things) it allows spellcasting without needing any armor proficiency. It's generally sort of treated as "not actually armor", although I don't know the specific rules of D&D 5e.

But in that case wouldn't AC be 25 instead of 21?

I didn't read your OP carefully. Sorry.

I have no idea what it means that it seems to be giving you a penalty.

What is your AC if you just take the chain off?

[eileen_dallahan]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Originally posted by eileen_dallahan:

But in that case wouldn't AC be 25 instead of 21?

I didn't read your OP carefully. Sorry.

I have no idea what it means that it seems to be giving you a penalty.

What is your AC if you just take the chain off?

Unarmoured AC is 21 (including cloak and bracers)

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by eileen_dallahan:

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

I didn't read your OP carefully. Sorry.

I have no idea what it means that it seems to be giving you a penalty.

What is your AC if you just take the chain off?

Unarmoured AC is 21 (including cloak and bracers)

Huh. I guess it's just a monk-specific "your armor is hereby cancelled" thing.

[Mike Garrison]

In BG2, while there were no penalties given to spellcasting for wearing elven chain, it *did* give penalties to thieving abilities.

So I guess that's kind of consistent with this -- elven chain is really meant to go onto normally-unarmored wizards.

[Dank Sidious]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Elven chain exists to help low AC bathrobe casters too cheap or lazy to cast mage armor or otherwise gain AC through class resources instead of cash.

Nonsense. Some of the more unique variants like BladesInger and it's update was pretty much the best armor for bards in BG2

[Dank Sidious]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

In BG2, while there were no penalties given to spellcasting for wearing elven chain, it *did* give penalties to thieving abilities.

So I guess that's kind of consistent with this -- elven chain is really meant to go onto normally-unarmored wizards.

The penalty was not being able to use Robe of Vecna especially in the Enhanced Edition where it's now part of the base game.

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

In BG2, while there were no penalties given to spellcasting for wearing elven chain, it *did* give penalties to thieving abilities.

So I guess that's kind of consistent with this -- elven chain is really meant to go onto normally-unarmored wizards.

The penalty was not being able to use Robe of Vecna especially in the Enhanced Edition where it's now part of the base game.

Yeah, but there is only one Robe of Vecna. You can have more than one wizard (and probably should).

I would prioritize an archmagi robe (or of course, Vecna) over elven chain in BG2, but it's a good option if you don't have the robes. And you can get it really easily in Trademeet (after you take care of the druid problem).

[LArc7thHeaven]

Not a bug. Monk lose wisdom AC bonus when they wear anything with "armor". Elven chain is medium armor and monk will lose their bonus when wearing them, same with shield

[Moonbane]

Elven chain had its place once in the old rulesets, where it was a special thing.

But now any arcane caster can learn armor feats and not having penalty when casting spells.

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by Moonbane:

Elven chain had its place once in the old rulesets, where it was a special thing.

But now any arcane caster can learn armor feats and not having penalty when casting spells.

Yeah, although this item is one of those "you are automatically proficient" armors, so you don't have to get proficiency with med. armor in general, but you can still wear it and cast spells.

Of course, in Act 3 you can also get the best set of heavy armor in the game that *also* makes you automatically proficient, so you can really turtle up your wizard if you want to.

[eileen_dallahan]

Originally posted by LArc7thHeaven:

Not a bug. Monk lose wisdom AC bonus when they wear anything with "armor". Elven chain is medium armor and monk will lose their bonus when wearing them, same with shield

As I mentioned in the starting post, my WIS bonus is +3 and continues to be added. The tooltip says -4 due to unarmoured defense which doesn't make sense, considering not even my DEX modifier is 4.

If I wear a piece of light armor, let's say Penumbral Armor (AC 12) my AC correctly drops to 18 and tooltip says
12 + 5 DEX + 1 (cloak of protection). The -4 debuff only happens with Elven Chain...

[Moonbane]

You are likely not profficient with elven chain, thats why its wrong.