hiding and invisibility works randomly?

[Pawel]

1) It's totally unclear to me how hiding works in this game. I've seen situations where there's only 1 enemy, my character successfully passes hiding check and loses hiding status. Game log shows two consecutive messages: "successful hiding test against X", then immediately "Y loses status: hiding"
2) It's totally unclear how invisibility works in this game. Sometimes being invisible lets you steal things and pass through doors, sometimes being invisible and trying to streal immediately triggers custcene "you have been spotted" and you autmatically LOSE all remaining turns of invisibility. There just doesn't seem to be a rule when being invisible will work and when they automatically spot you no matter what.

[Grumpy]

There's something about the light though. It works better if you're in the shadows.

[Mokona]

If you are in full light you automatically lose hiding if you are in vision range of someone. My guess is you where in partial lighting when it did the roll, succeeded, and then moved into full light which forced you to losing hiding. There is no roll for it.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by Mokona:

If you are in full light you automatically lose hiding if you are in vision range of someone. My guess is you where in partial lighting when it did the roll, succeeded, and then moved into full light which forced you to losing hiding. There is no roll for it.

Should try to roll in the mud, it worked well enough for Schwarzy

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Pawel:

1) It's totally unclear to me how hiding works in this game. I've seen situations where there's only 1 enemy, my character successfully passes hiding check and loses hiding status. Game log shows two consecutive messages: "successful hiding test against X", then immediately "Y loses status: hiding"
2) It's totally unclear how invisibility works in this game. Sometimes being invisible lets you steal things and pass through doors, sometimes being invisible and trying to streal immediately triggers custcene "you have been spotted" and you autmatically LOSE all remaining turns of invisibility. There just doesn't seem to be a rule when being invisible will work and when they automatically spot you no matter what.

Regarding 1, you lose invisibility if you are in a lit area when you are seen in stealth, you only take a hiding check roll when you are in a dim area. There is an issue however where half the things you encounter have some kind of dark vision so you end up getting spotted anyway because for them it is considered fully lit.

The stealth system in this game is kind of a stillbirth.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by Dimlhugion:

The game does a horrible job of explaining the underlying D&D5e mechanics it is based on. Topics like this are the inevitable result and I really don't blame you for being confused.

Basically what you have to realize is that D&D actually has VERY strict rules on defining Physical Space and the passage of Time. You often SEE and / or HEAR references to common, real-life units of measure, but the reality is anything but mundane.

Physical Space is measured by "squares" (or hexes, if your playmat is hexagonal) and each "square" is equal to about 5 feet (not sure what that converts to in Metric) of real world space. So when someone has a vision cone out to 40 feet (most racial defaults) that means they can see roughly 8 "squares" straight in front of them. The square they are standing in, is considered occupied. If someone has a movement speed of 40 feet, it means they can travel up to 8 squares' worth of space in one Move action (moving forward one square, then back one square, if you're being super strict / technical, would be 10 feet taken from your 40 feet allowance for that move).

Time is measured by "turns" and each turn lasts 6 real world seconds. Most ability checks are not indefinite; the fact that you couldn't passively hear someone walking behind you 6 seconds ago, doesn't mean you won't EVENTUALLY pick up on their presence. Or they might cough, or trip. Etc. So when you pass a Stealth check, you are technically only good for about 6 seconds.

This is why Turn Based mode is so important. It slows EVERYTHING down to literal "it's your turn, you have 6 seconds to do X, Y, and Z." So you know EXACTLY how long your rage will last for, your invisibility potion will last for, etc.

The physical space thing doesn't matter, until it does. Meaning, this game doesn't really "restrict" you ostensibly into exactly 5 foot boxes. But it WILL allow you to mis-click and target just a FRACTION to the left of the person you're trying to stab... and suddenly your rogue is stabbing empty air. Wasting his Attack action. Because you technically targeted 5 full feet away from the occupied space the enemy is in, as far as mechanics are concerned.

As if all of that weren't enough, you have layers. If someone is hiding, great. But are they NOISY? Are they SMELLY? Are they causing VIBRATIONS? Are they cloaked MAGICALLY? There are levels of senses/abilities as well. Something with TremorSense gives zero F's about basically everything for instance -- as long as you're making contact with solid ground they WILL "see" you.

Part of the appeal to this game, for me, is that it allows you to be exactly as "in-depth" on this stuff as you want to be. But the disservice that happens is when people who are either newer to D&D or perhaps just expecting what the game "shows" to be what the game IS, and suddenly they're blindsided by "umm ACTUALLY according to D&D rules y'all got caught sooooo"

That's a lof of words, i'm not reading that.

[talemore]

If you cast a spell the NPC freaks out but won't do anything. Then stealing is just the distrance from you leaving the Fog cloud and entering it again after a successful theft attempt

How battle work, works for stealing. Having enemies in battle are victims to murder and theft by sending in ONE character to start the battle.

The rest of the party is allowed to relocate where they want to be.

The area where you are spotted highlighted is very odd in design because they made them each and every pattern is premade and the character as placed next to them. So if you have a slow HDD the spot of the NPC to be seen is lag behind the NPC since they're not connected. It's not the NPC who see you but the floor is lava. In skyrim you can put a bucket on the head and the NPC can't see you, this do not work here. They have X- ray vision with a radius. You can be accused of stealing by the corpse you revived.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by Dimlhugion:

Originally posted by Grumpy:

That's a lof of words, i'm not reading that.

It may be a LOT of words, but it also wasn't written for you. So win/win

Yeah but i'm a good metric system for moronism on this forum. So that's a triple win my good sir.

[Jack Burton]

The game is not a faithful recreation of many mechanics, & some do indeed seem as though they were due at least another pass.

[SpaceWombat]

If you feel unsure of why things are happening then play in turn based mode as it's far more predictable.

stealth works like this:

- when you are outside an enemy's "visibility cone" they can never see you while sneaking. However, If you stand up in their proximity or make an action that creates noise ( ex. jumping or verbal spellcasting ) they will immediately spot you. Casting silence, darkness, or using dark arrows is very important for stealth combat.

- when you are sneaking within their visibility cone you have to make stealth throws to remain hidden. You have advantage on throws that are made in darkness. The armor you wear is important as some will give you disadvantage when trying to sneak like Heavy armor.

- Invisibility will always end prematurely if you make an action.

[Soji]

I dont think invisibility makes it where you can't be heard so its possible they heard you trying to steal.

[Pawel]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Originally posted by Pawel:

1) It's totally unclear to me how hiding works in this game. I've seen situations where there's only 1 enemy, my character successfully passes hiding check and loses hiding status. Game log shows two consecutive messages: "successful hiding test against X", then immediately "Y loses status: hiding"
2) It's totally unclear how invisibility works in this game. Sometimes being invisible lets you steal things and pass through doors, sometimes being invisible and trying to streal immediately triggers custcene "you have been spotted" and you autmatically LOSE all remaining turns of invisibility. There just doesn't seem to be a rule when being invisible will work and when they automatically spot you no matter what.

Regarding 1, you lose invisibility if you are in a lit area when you are seen in stealth, you only take a hiding check roll when you are in a dim area. There is an issue however where half the things you encounter have some kind of dark vision so you end up getting spotted anyway because for them it is considered fully lit.

The stealth system in this game is kind of a stillbirth.

OK, but how come there was a check in the log, and it was passed, and then hidden status was lost?

Regarding (2), I meant the 10 turns invisibility from potion/spell (not from "hiding" action). How this works is totally unclear to me. Sometimes I can do whatever I want for the full 10 turns and nobody sees me, and sometimes "you have been spotted" cutscene is triggered on picking up an item or moving into some area, and I lose all remaining invisibility turns just like that. There just doesn't seem to be any consistent rule to that.

[Pawel]

Originally posted by Soji:

I dont think invisibility makes it where you can't be heard so its possible they heard you trying to steal.

Shouldn't there be some checks in the log? Because I am pretty sure there aren't any. Just an information that I am no longer invisible, just like that.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by Pawel:

Originally posted by Soji:

I dont think invisibility makes it where you can't be heard so its possible they heard you trying to steal.

Shouldn't there be some checks in the log? Because I am pretty sure there aren't any. Just an information that I am no longer invisible, just like that.

How much checks do you want?! It's already a really crowded combat chat, don't add more than necessary.

[Pawel]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

Originally posted by Pawel:

Shouldn't there be some checks in the log? Because I am pretty sure there aren't any. Just an information that I am no longer invisible, just like that.

How much checks do you want?! It's already a really crowded combat chat, don't add more than necessary.

I just want to know how it works, sometimes I drink invisibility potion and can loot everything and open every door, go everywhere, utilize full 10 turns and noboty notices me, while in other cases, drinking the same invisibility potion I am immediately spotted on picking up a single item, opening door or moving into some area. There just isn't any consistency.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by Pawel:

Originally posted by Grumpy:

How much checks do you want?! It's already a really crowded combat chat, don't add more than necessary.

I just want to know how it works, sometimes I drink invisibility potion and can loot everything and open every door, go everywhere, utilize full 10 turns and noboty notices me, while in other cases, drinking the same invisibility potion I am immediately spotted on picking up a single item, opening door or moving into some area. There just isn't any consistency.

The map isn't the same i guess so we can't help more than that. The others told you all about it now you just have to test it out by yourself.